The "Check Down"

 
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A CLIFF A

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Three Handed Knock Out -- "The Check Down"

By A CLIFF A

I stumbled across an interesting chat box conversation last week, as I was moved from one tournament table to another.  When I sat down at this new table, I noticed that there was a small discussion already in progress.  Player A was preaching to Player B about how they played out this particular hand/situation.  The situation was when these two players became involved in a three handed pot, with Player C all in before the flop.  The third individual (Player C) was knocked out as a result of this hand.  Please keep in mind this game was a MTT (Multiple Table Tournament).  I am going to round off and say that at this point in time there was around 900 players remaining out of 2500.  Getting back to the story, when I sat down Player A was criticizing Player B for betting on the flop, turn, and river while Player C was already all in.


Player A was stating that it is wrong for Player B to be betting in this situation because of the importance to get Player C knocked out of the tournament.  Player A was suggesting that any players involved in the hand at this point should all be checking it down.  I couldn't believe the information that Player A was providing to this entire table, as I feel Player A is absolutely wrong!  As I read along this chat conversation, I felt compelled to add in my ten cents of advice.  I felt it was necessary to speak up because I didn't want other players at this table to get the wrong idea stuck in their head.  To my astonishment three or four players chatted back to me, stating that Player A is correct.  If there is a hand where an individual is all in, the remaining players in the pot should be checking down because they are now gaining better chances of knocking out the player that is all in.  I could not believe it!  When I look at this particular situation, I do understand where Player A is coming from.


However, I completely disagree when we are talking about 900 remaining players in a MTT.  When in a MTT it is important to accumulate chips and make the most out of every opportunity that comes your way.  This is not a Sit N Go!  This one player getting knocked out is not going to dramatically increase your chances of making more money or getting to the money faster.  When I put myself in Player B's shoes, (granted I didn't see the hand) even if I have a worse hand than the all in Player C, I want to build up a side pot.  Once I make any sort of hand (or even if I'm just making a play) it is time to build the pot.  When it comes to a MTT I am concerned about me, myself, and I.  Like I said before, who cares if Player C gets knocked out or not?!  I want to gain chips for my stack!  Obviously, the best way to gain chips for my stack is to start placing bets.  Build that side pot!!  If you have an opportunity to make chips in an MTT, take advantage of that!  On the flip side, Player A is correct when we are talking short handed or a Sit N Go.


There is no rhyme or reason to bet in that situation because of how important it is to knock out your opponents.  In this situation knocking out Player C is going to make a difference in how fast you make it to the money or how much money you will make.  The one exception to this "checking down" is having the absolute nuts.  Never hesitate to bet the nuts!  In this particular occasion you'll want to try and gain more chips for yourself!  If you are holding the nuts, you obviously have Player C beat anyways!

Published Jun 21 2008, 04:57 AM

Comments

 

THE_RANNNNN said:

[quote]

who cares if Player C gets knocked out or not?!  I want to gain chips for my stack!

[/quote]

Very true!

July 24, 2008 7:00 AM
 

melikman said:

Hahaha. yeah I acutally will bet out with A high and hope it can beat player C....and then have people come after me  for my wrong doings ... i even do it in 55 45 with 8 players left just to be a dick and get more  chips...what can I say .. im hungry!!!

July 24, 2008 2:13 PM
 

Brett21 said:

I actually have seen some weird plays made on this topic...admittably at a lower level.  Twenty five people left in a five tale and a shortstack is all in with three callers.  After the flop, one guy bets out the pot with his six high flush draw.  He bluffs everyone out of the dry side pot, but wins exacty squat.  

I think the concern you have in a pot containing an all in player and no side pot changes with the situation.  With several or hundreds left, you're mainly concerned with winning the pot and chipping up.  If you're hand is pretty strong, like top pair, but vulnerable, sure you have to protect it.  If you're on a draw, betting out is plain dumb.  I think that checking it down at a final table with lots of money at stake is probably the right play.

If you're in a situation with a side pot though, all of those concerns leave.  If it's big enough, sure bluff if you can.  Maybe you will still have two live cards and can still win the main one.

But, betting out without a side pot and without a made hand is dumb..plain and simple.

July 26, 2008 3:23 PM

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