The Hate Group

    One of my oldest friends (25 years and counting) is a vice-principal at the same high school he attended in times gone by. He was a standout teacher, then became music department head, then was promoted again a couple years back. He is a dedicated and passionate educator who cares about providing the best possible environment for his students and fellow faculty and staff.

    His position as a school figurehead brings with it notoriety both positive and negative. He has helped teach thousands of students about music, conduct and life over the years, hopefully molding today’s young minds into tomorrow’s leaders. He also has, as I recently learned, a “hate group” on Facebook, where some previously aggrieved students can gather and talk shit about him.

    He wasn’t happy. It can be tough not to take this stuff personally, even if we take Vito Corleone’s “it’s not personal…it’s business” advice to heart. In a detached way, the hate group is just business. None of these students really know him personally. They just know he caught them pulling a smoke alarm or shooting spitwads, and busted them for it. But the thought that someone would say mean-spirited things about him was quite hurtful, just the same.

    The vast majority of people are social creatures. We want to be around others, to like them, and have them like us. If someone does something nice for us, we thank him or her. If we do something mean to another, we apologize. If they express a positive opinion of us, we are flattered and pleased.

    And, as it relates to just about every poker session we play…if they tell us we did something stupid, we react emotionally, negatively. Constructive criticism is one thing; I’m talking about the guy you just sucked out on calling you a donkey, an idiot, Chris Hansen’s favorite “Dateline NBC” subject, etc. The railbird who finds you at subsequent tables, even different tournaments, with the sole aim to harass and belittle you.

    Only the bad guys in professional wrestling truly want to be hated…being the bad guy puts money in their pocket. In poker, having someone distracted from what they’re supposed to be doing by vitriolic hatred can also be very profitable. Most people, myself included, have tilted off a stack due to, in some part, an E-fight. And it’s fairly obvious some folks come to the table looking for a fight to put their opponents in that state – or at the very least, don’t shy away when the opportunity presents itself. Matusow and Hellmuth didn’t get called “The Mouth” and “Poker Brat” by accident.

    I’m not recommending being the guy trying to get under everyone’s skin by being abrasive or confrontational. I think it’s bad for the game. Most people aren’t as good at it as they think they are. And, most importantly, I think the majority of agitators distract and tilt themselves, hurting them more any edge to be gained putting their opponents off-stride. If you’re constantly thinking of the next smart remark or insult, the less focus you have on the game itself.

    In a similar vein, if someone is going after you, it’s probably not worth your effort to return fire and launch of volley of insults back. Good sport, maybe, but distracting from the end result. You want every chip on the table, not to put your enemy in his place. If you win the verbal battle, but lose the card war…you’re still out of the game.

    I can’t go to my bank and deposit a chat log showing how soundly I thrashed this douchebag who insulted my 3-bet shove with 97 suited.

    Don’t get into a defense of your play either. If your opponent can’t understand fold equity, and why you 3-bet shoved with 97 suited…that’s his problem, not yours. If he doesn’t know why calling with KJ offsuit was a bad play, even though he may have been ahead this one time…that’s his problem, not yours. Part of wanting to be liked includes nobody wanting for others to think they’re stupid. In poker, if everyone else thinks you’re stupid, that’s awesome! Why dispel the myth, and give out free lessons in the process?

    So, you want to keep the tilted player on tilt for as long as possible, without sinking to his level? Well, think back to The Godfather. This is just business…or, at the very least, gamesmanship. He or she probably wouldn’t be saying these terrible things about your mother or the size of your junk if you hadn’t beaten him in a pot. So it’s not actually about you, personally, is it? If you act like it is, and sink to their level, very little good can come of it.

    Try to say as little as possible – just enough to keep the conversation (and his tilt) going, but nothing more. The more you say, the quicker you will use up whatever you have to say, and the quicker his rant will finish. Not good. Respond just enough to prompt the next round of epithets. You want the rant to keep going, even if he’s on the rail. The longer our new friend continues to go nuts, the more likely it is he will remember who we are, and make the same assumptions about our heritage or personal hygiene habits the next time we see them.

    The best way for you to keep a level head during this is to be exceedingly polite. Don’t curse back…that’s what he wants. There is a noble art form to killing with kindness. The old adage “you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar” is often true, and definitely worth pursuing even if it doesn’t hold every time.

    Look, I know staying above the fray isn’t always easy. But it’s something we should all aspire to. There’s no need for hate. As John Lennon said, “All you need is love”…and he was The Walrus, after all.
    Comments16 Comments
    1. Stay_calm86

      Awesome article, great mix of truth and humor


      Stay_calm86's Avatar
    1. Jennifear

      I'm not much of a chatter, and you won't find this advice anywhere in a book, because it doesn't promote the game.  If you want to tangle in the chatbox and have a little fun, then I have one word for ya:


      Illogic.  


      If you want to tilt someone in a nasty fashion, use an argument devoid of logic.  The reaction you get is priceless.


      When you beat KK with A4, then "it's about time I won a coinflip", or "no aces flopped last hand, so I felt they would hit this hand".... this even works better if the flop last time contained an ace.  


      "It was suited."  "It wasn't suited so I had TWO chances to hit a flush, not just one."  "I had a feeling."  "I have all the chips now, so I must be better than you."  These one-liners work.


      If they can't beat your argument with logic, they will become very frustrated and tilty.  Plus you aren't getting mad, your goal is now truly to get them upset, and use your newfound image to your advantage, so you won't get caught up in defending your plays.


      One last word of advice if you are going to use the chatbox as a weapon:  Fight right, nice left.  You want the player on your right to call your 3-bet value raise out of frustration, but you want to be able to continue to steal from the player on your left.


      Jennifear's Avatar
    1. snaggs

      gold as usual.  


      "In poker, if everyone else thinks you’re stupid, that’s awesome!"


      so easy to lose sight of this fact. Also funny that I think the smarter one is the harder this lesson is to learn, yet contradictorily how smart can you be if you consistently let your ego get in the way of a winning strategy?


      PS  Often times I am the guy who ain't so damn smart.


      snaggs's Avatar
    1. ggIFyouCALL

      i'll stick with the any publicity is good publicity and keep on trollin


      ggIFyouCALL's Avatar
    1. ApesAreFun

      This is a great article. Very well done Grap. Are you a writer?


      ApesAreFun's Avatar
    1. stnnine

      win or lose, why read the chat? Unless you think you'll win every hand the chat is irrelivant. Even a micro player gets that. Duh!


      stnnine's Avatar
    1. sullivanjm

      Great article and totally true here are some of my funnier one liners that you are free to use at anytime gets them so ticked off and the rest of the table has a laugh


      Villian: "your a donk"


      You: "how true in fact do you have anymore carrots sorry chips i can have"


      Villian: "Your a fish"


      You: "Sorry can you repeat didnt quite get you must be all this water in my ears"


      Villian: How could you call that


      You: Oh dont you know its the button which says Call if you press that the site puts those chips in the middle. If you need further assitance please let me know


      When i get a bad beat I simple try to say nice hand gl guys for the rest of the tourney


      sullivanjm's Avatar
    1. sgildea25

      I came to a realization last week in the live vs. online world. In the online world, no one can tell if you are a "nice guy/lady" or a "bad guy/lady" because a computer screen separates the two of you. So therefore it's in your best interest to "X" out of chat permanently. Don't even read it. Just turn off Player Chat and Observer Chat at your table (unless it's a Private tourney with friends. Then it's fair game...)


      While playing live, be the "nice guy/lady" because this works to your advantage against weak players. Because you are "nice," they won't play back at you. In reality, you are a "jerk" in the poker sense because you are c-betting, check-raising, and doing all the "mean" things a seasoned player will pull. However, if you do all this with the "nice" persona at the table, your opp. will almost always put you on the nuts/made hand because in his/her head, "This person is too nice to bluff/raise without a monster."


      Just a thought....


      Nice article Graps!


      sgildea25's Avatar
    1. poker763

      Well written.


      poker763's Avatar
    1. sweetlady57

      I just do not talk to people at all, seems to work.


      sweetlady57's Avatar
    1. Bullajami

      Great article.  I will usually also try to attract the wrath of a ranter if he is going after the fish at the table.  I don't want him to drive the fish away with his insults, so I intercede.  I find the line, "Maybe this limit's too hard for you.  Maybe you should drop down a level or two." usually does the trick nicely.


      Bullajami's Avatar
    1. DAMIMABEAST

      VERY WELL WRITTEN SIR THANKS ONCE AGAIN


      DAMIMABEAST's Avatar
    1. BlueRenegade

      Am I the only way who plays with chat off?  Or does everybody else in the world actually give a crap about what some random person on the Internet thinks about them?


      Just wonderin'.


      BlueRenegade's Avatar
    1. grapsfan

      Blue, the point(s) of the article is that:


      a) you shouldn't give a crap about what some random person thinks


      b) what someone else says can be very valuable information to use to your advantage


      Nothing wrong with that.


      But I often advise people with tilt problems, or if they find the box distracting, to turn it off.  Nothing wrong with that either.


      Thanks for reading, everyone.


      grapsfan's Avatar
    1. JACK WELCH

      I find complimenting a third player at the table - especially after a bad play - often goes a long way toward tilting my "target."  Your game also must be capable of adjusting to the response of the tilt-worthy. - JDW


      JACK WELCH's Avatar
    1. dapalma150

      Very nice article sir.


      dapalma150's Avatar

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