If you’ve been perusing the PocketFives.com forums lately, then you’ve noticed a thread called “Growing Epidemic in Online Poker: A Letter to the Community.” In it, Dylan ImaLucSac Linde pleads with readers to avoid upsetting softer players by berating them verbally and with stats at the tables and on online poker forums like PocketFives.com. He candidly explained, “When I first got into poker, the idea of ‘not tapping the glass’ was in a lot of poker literature and just seemed to make a lot of sense to me. Obviously, I have been guilty of getting angry and saying a snide remark in the past, but we all need to make a conscious effort to stop this.”Linde told PocketFives.com what the impetus was to begin authoring his post, which has received nine pages of responses: “I’ve been going through the largest downswing of my career as a poker player. This has caused a lot of introspection, as I think it should. Thinking about the various mistakes I have made, I was reflecting on my tilt factor. I started to notice that sometimes when I made a questionable play, someone would randomly berate me.” Linde is a Triple Crown winner on the site and hails from Idaho.
In an age when poker appears to be on the decline, Linde’s sentiments strike even more accord with professional players. He commented, “With the way the poker economy is now, it’s more harmful than ever. The people that get driven away now are far less likely to return.” The passage of the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) drove several large sites out of the U.S. market, including PartyPoker and Paradise Poker. As a result, most of the American action now occurs on PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, which are the two largest online poker sites in the world.
The nine pages of responses are mixed, but largely positive. Linde told us what reaction he has received in Private Messages and Instant Messages: “I have had a few random PMs on PocketFives.com saying basically that they are behind what I said 100% and usually citing some example of them not doing it. Nowadays, even the $50 freezes will have four or five solid players in them. Those are the people that are the biggest culprits, I think, so we are seeing more and more rude behavior at the tables.” He added that while rude behavior is a no-no, quoting ROIs and other mathematical figures is even more of a cardinal sin.
One dissenting response came from The Worm, a poker player from Ithaca, New York. He commented in the thread, “When was the last time you berated someone and they instantly started playing better? When was the last time you talked shit and they got up and left? If anything, when you start talking shit, it encourages the people to keep doing what they are doing.” Others noted that berating players in the chat box serves as a coping mechanism, ultimately leading to better play themselves once they’ve blown off some steam. The question of whether slow rolling should be included in the discussion also came up.In the middle of writing his final paragraph, Linde told PocketFives.com that he had a realization of sorts. He recalled his Zen moment: “We both know it’s hard to appeal to online players to help others, but you can get them to help themselves. I was listening to a little coaching by Tommy Angelo and he discussed how if you do not allow the pain (and joy) of poker to become overwhelming while you are playing, you will be far more likely to play your A game. While I have never been a big berater, in chat, you can imagine some crazy things that have gone through my head at the same time.”
Where do you weigh in? Visit Linde’s post in Poker Discussion and voice your choice.
Quagaars
good article. I been policing the tables I'm at. I'll tell the players, "Guys, it is no fun to berate people. Don't do it. And especially don't mention the stats!"
biggboss33
Yea, I've always (with a few exceptions) played this way... why would you want to give someone a reason, and if your hollering about stats, a resource to come back stronger?... This site has helped me tremendously and I found it by someone referencing it while slamming another player at a cash game on stars!!
Euthanizer
I AM one of those players guilty of going off and it's one of those things that I know is bad yet do anyway. Usually after my session I beat myself up over these outbursts and vow to stop, but I always end up "tapping the glass" again. It's immature, -ev, rude, and, most importantly it drives away players in a time when we need to take every edge just to keep the industry alive. Thank you Lucksac for addressing this issue and giving the beraters the kick in the ass we need.
SyphonSoul
Ive seen worse "epidemics" that didnt make front page. Nevertheless, this happens to be true.
xxbossmanxx
I take pride in never even having a chat warning after almost 6 years of online poker play. Nice read.
noctus
What do you guys think really hurts the game more?
The occasional rebating that most donks heedlessly endure, or...
Poker sites like PokerXfactor, Cardrunners, etc, who make money off making the field tougher for the rest of us? Or even worse, guys like Fox who post entirely for free. For all the time and energy the guy spends about keeping his edge sharp he sure spends a lot of time sharping the blades of his competition.
All of these guys are basically a rake on the rest of us. They profit by killing our profit (making all the fields tougher).
So next time you see someone tapping the glass and think "oh no, he's possibly making this one fish better", think of the hundreds, or thousands that poker training sites actually make better.
noctus
berating... no rebating, lol
Masakik86
I'm guilty for showing stats in the chat berating only when I'm sweating a friend and someone made fun of his play. I'm definitely not going to do it anymore after reading this. Noctus made a great point about the trainning sites. It does definitely tap on the glass or more like smashes the aquarium. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it but try to continually improve your game which you should be doing anyway.
symotobol
ummm c'mon, when you got a/j off, raise pre-flop and pair your jack on the flop for top pair, there's two hearts on the flop so you raise hard to push off any draws (but if they call and make it good for them) but some donkey calls with jack nine off and gets his suck out nine on the rive... well... you gotta stop to think.. how do I avoid these idiots?
Spraggs
I PERSONALLY DONT THINK "ABUSIVE CHAT" IS THE CAUSE OF THE DECLINE IN THE POKER ECONOMY.
I BELIEVE IT IS GENERALLY MORE RELATED TO THE OVERALL STATE OF THE ECONOMY WE ARE ALL IN AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME AND THE RECENT PAST.
I FEEL THAT MAKES A HELL OF A LOT MORE SENSE THAN "ITS BECAUSE A NEWBIE GETS CALLED A DONK.."
I DO HOWEVER APLAUD YOU FOR TRYING TO COME TO A SOLUTION.
(CASUAL PLAYERS USE THEIR DISPOSABLE INCOME TO PLAY POKER WITH, FOR FUN... LESS DISPOSABLE INCOME = LESS CASUAL POKER TRAFFIC... THIS IS FACT!)
El_tigre_7
I found the article very interesting, Spraggs none said that "ABUSIVE CHAT" is the cause off the decline in the poker economy. It might be one of the factors, maybe a litle factor but dosent matter how big it is, if you can do something for the better off your ROI and your winrate, why not doing it ? And beyond that, berate peploe in chats or in any other way is stupid and rude and something just not cool or right. Better than berate someone, make a note how stupid was his play and use it for yourself at the future !
About the article, complety agreed !
At my opnion, more interesting then the article itself is noctus post. I agree with the post but at the same time is impossible at days like this to just not exist any train sites, things are evolving all the time in poker world, and at my point off view you should think about it more like a challenge that you want to beat and adapt to it like ever change in any poker cycle. If peploe are getting better and understanding the new concepts about the game, keep that in mind and use it for your own benetfit by making changes your game that suits to this knew cycle.
JACK WELCH
I am Old School. One lesson is... never let your opponents know what you know. Study Machiavelli, study Sun Tzu. Berating your opponents is a tell and a leak.
Spraggs
Oops..Sorry for the caps..
fwiw, i 100% dont think people berating others in the cb is a good thing or should be done, especially with regards to stats. Wen i start typing "wp" etc, i know im starting to tilt.
Like i said, i greatly respect Dylan for making an effort.
Gregrrr
I beat the rake, so I'm not the fishiest fish. But I have been berated in a ring game, realized I was too tired to make good decisions, and logged off for the night. The wise ass saved me some $$.
graytambar
Poker can be a frustrating game even for those that are really good at it. This leads to all the negative chat that constantly goes on. If you are a losing player and have to deal with this negativity every time you play then its going to get old and make you want to quit. Not even just "glass-tapping" but negativity all around needs to be reduced to keep this game fun I feel.
pokerpoker69
lol who cares
like calling someone a fish is going to hurt their feelings enough to not make them wana play anymore..just lol
BrazilianEye
The fishes are our "clients" so we should treat them well. That's my philosophy.
Usually when they make a bad play and hit I say something in the lines of "Nice catch!".
derekwall
Dont agree, why not stop all of the training sites, coaching, and poker forums, doesnt that take away from your edge to. I guess it doesnt matter if you do it in a mean way or in a good way.
Cptn_Squishy
I don't know anyone who's stopped playing because their feelings were slightly hurt. The only reason I can think that someone would quit poker is if people would induce other players into saying something objectionable and then reporting them.
But I have to agree with many posters here. A lot of people play micros to relax and play casually, and guy who've been going through CR, DC, or FTPA tend to gloat when they win and whine when they lose.