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John Juanda: Ray Bitar Made $200,000 Per Month Post-Black Friday[ return to main articles page ]

By: Dan Cypra    [See all articles by Dan Cypra]
Published on Sep 22nd, 2012
In a series of Tweets late in the week, Full Tilt Poker shareholder John Juanda (pictured) lashed out against several accusations made by Howard Lederer in the recently completed "Lederer Files" published by PokerNews. Among the assertions Juanda fired back on was the notion that he never repaid his debt to Full Tilt. The subject of Full Tilt's loose player loan policy took center stage in Part 4 of "The Lederer Files."

Juanda Tweeted on Thursday why he never repaid his Full Tilt loan: "I owe FTP $256K, was offered to settle for 80% but declined when I found out Ray [Bitar], w/board's approval, was still taking home $200K+/mo post BF." Juanda elaborated, "Instead, I offered to pay 100% as soon as I could be certain it'd go toward paying players NOT management salary & lawyers fees."

In July, Lederer told Tom Dwan that Full Tilt's burn rate was $1.5 million per month. The U.S. Department of Justice, in its superseding indictment filed the same month, alleged that Bitar and Full Tilt payment processing guru Nelson Burtnick received "several million dollars" in salaries post-Black Friday.

Juanda then posed the following question to his nearly 32,000 followers on Twitter: "Howard didn't mention in his interview that FTP management also stole $5.4M from my best friend @Erik_Seidel… What would u do in my shoes? Send check to same ppl who just stole from ur buddy? Or wait + hope to pay to the right parties?"

The $5.4 million that Full Tilt's management allegedly "stole" from Seidel was not touched on during PokerNews' sit-down with Lederer (pictured).

However, on Saturday, PokerNews COO Matt Parvis published a retrospective of "The Lederer Files" and revealed, "This information was something I was aware of and Lederer felt it should be discussed, but Seidel didn't want the information public for reasons to which I am not privy. Lederer has since contacted me and let me know that because of Juanda's Tweet, it was okay for me to confirm that this story was in fact true."

Lederer told Parvis, "None of them paid back their loans… We kept asking them to pay their money back." Specifically called out by Lederer in that department were Phil Ivey, Erick Lindgren, Juanda, Bitar, and David Oppenheim.

"The Professor" also charged that Juanda was tied as the second largest shareholder in Full Tilt. Juanda also refuted that fact, Tweeting, "For the record, Howard Lederer was wrong when he said I was 2nd largest shareholder of FTP! Maybe he REALLY didn't know!?" Juanda continued, "As Ray Bitar's boss, Howard Lederer should've accepted more blame instead of trying to shift blame to everyone else."

Why did Lederer agree to a seven-hour interview with PokerNews in Las Vegas in the first place, breaking his 15-month silence? According to Juanda, "IMO Lederer didn't do interview bcos he's sorry. He did it 2 settle old scores + put blame on ppl who disagreed w/how he ran FTP."

Also chiming in on "The Lederer Files" was PokerStars front man Daniel Negreanu (pictured), who insinuated that he didn't blame any of the pros Lederer called out for not paying their loans back. Negreanu posted on Twitter, "The list of people who owed FTP money is MUCH longer than what he listed. NO ONE would pay back a Ray Bitar-led FTP ever!"

In an interview with PokerListings, Negreanu addressed the allegations made by Lederer that Full Tilt pro Erick Lindgren failed to repay a loan that was double-credited to him for a total of $4 million: "There is no way to condone that. What's clear at this point is he has a gambling problem and it caused him to do some truly foolish things."

Finally, Negreanu cited an article from a former Full Tilt Poker employee that claimed just 30% of Lederer's comments were the truth. Negreanu echoed, "I heard several comments that I knew to be absolutely blatant lies in the attempt to make him look like the lone savior while throwing everyone else under the bus."

If you missed any of "The Lederer Files," check out PocketFives' recaps of Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, and Part 7.

Comments

  1. So many long friendships killed by greed.
  2. they are all POS
  3. big money is getting tossed around and its being treated like used candy.
     1
  4. fucking scumbags even 10 $ is a lot of money for all of us!
  5. lederer needs to eat a good ole fashioned shit burger
  6. Always took a disliking to lederer from the first time I seen him playing on tv, there was something smug and just not right about him. Still never thought he'd go and be responsible 4 a lot of players not getting there money(life roll, poker bannkroll) he's a true fucking scumbag. He deserves to be at a very minimum to get allhis assets minus a few grand takin and a lengthy prison sentence!!
  7. Whats even worse is the people that get jail time for stealing money. They dont get sent to real jail they get sentence to a rich people's jail, just the like the governor of Illinois did. I believe these mother fuckers should be sent to the same jail all the other standard criminals go to. I think if that were the case they would really reconsider these white collar crimes. Fucking put them in General population, thats what they deserve IMO. But they get jail time at places with tennis courts and with no dangers. Im sure the FTP people still have the money they stole hidden off shore, so they do a couple years at the country club jail and they come up and still have some of there stolen proceeds. Its bs, white collar crimes, affect more people and are for longer amounts of money. Shouldnt get to go to country club jail. And WHEN THE FUCKING DOJ GOIN TO POST SOMETHING ABOUT GETTING OUR MONEY BACK THEY SAID THEY POST INFO IN THE WEEKS TO COME ITS BEEN 2 MONTHS AND THEY HAVE POSTED SHIT.
     
  8. God damn all this shit sucks so bad. I just wish it were 2005 forever.....Im just sick of all this madness and my gov.............FML
  9. When and if the DOJ pays us our money they should consider that we should get interest on our money from the Lederer and his deciples
  10.  
    Originally Posted by opgonbad View Post

    When and if the DOJ pays us our money they should consider that we should get interest on our money from the Lederer and his deciples

    You know...i watched the whole 7 parts twice and really listened to alot of what Howard was saying. He said he takes full responsibility for what happened, wasn't just throwing blame at everyone else involved. I'm not saying i believed everything he said but he was clearly trying to explain his side and why things got the way they did.. Why is everyone so fast to believe he is totally lying, when these guys who don't have much more credit to their names people believe?. Ivey is no different as i believe everything Howard said about that situation cause that is Phil. Greedy and a degenerate. If it wasn't for being great at poker he would be flat broke. I lived in Las Vegas for over 10 years and met and dealt with many of these players he is talking about with loans out. I was involved in sports betting and alot of what he says about these guys is true. While i never met Howard personally i can tell you that most of those others i did. Plus i know many people who know even more. Erick Lindgren probably 7 or 8 years ago owed a very big time offshore sportsbook a few million and anyone that knew anything knew this to be true. So when i hear Daniel N defend him just cause he is a good friend, it kind of doesn't bode well. However i will say i have never heard anything said negatively about Daniel N so i will put that out there. I know Howard and everyone else made mistakes but who hasn't in this whole mess? Just saying don't believe everything these guys have to say either cause they are all liars too. Trust me.
     
  11. what a cluster fuck. we will probably never know the truth while the community tries to sort out who is telling the truth.
     
  12.  
    Originally Posted by HawkDwight View Post

    God damn all this shit sucks so bad. I just wish it were 2005 forever.....Im just sick of all this madness and my gov.............FML


    Remember Neteller and even Epassporte. Win money and have access to it within hours.
  13.  
    Originally Posted by big$bond View Post

    You know...i watched the whole 7 parts twice and really listened to alot of what Howard was saying. He said he takes full responsibility for what happened, wasn't just throwing blame at everyone else involved. I'm not saying i believed everything he said but he was clearly trying to explain his side and why things got the way they did.. Why is everyone so fast to believe he is totally lying, when these guys who don't have much more credit to their names people believe?. Ivey is no different as i believe everything Howard said about that situation cause that is Phil. Greedy and a degenerate. If it wasn't for being great at poker he would be flat broke. I lived in Las Vegas for over 10 years and met and dealt with many of these players he is talking about with loans out. I was involved in sports betting and alot of what he says about these guys is true. While i never met Howard personally i can tell you that most of those others i did. Plus i know many people who know even more. Erick Lindgren probably 7 or 8 years ago owed a very big time offshore sportsbook a few million and anyone that knew anything knew this to be true. So when i hear Daniel N defend him just cause he is a good friend, it kind of doesn't bode well. However i will say i have never heard anything said negatively about Daniel N so i will put that out there. I know Howard and everyone else made mistakes but who hasn't in this whole mess? Just saying don't believe everything these guys have to say either cause they are all liars too. Trust me.

    After this interview Lederer got into his new Shelby Mustang or his Maserati, drove home to one of his huge homes, lit a blunt and laughed
  14.  
    Originally Posted by big$bond View Post

    You know...i watched the whole 7 parts twice and really listened to alot of what Howard was saying. He said he takes full responsibility for what happened, wasn't just throwing blame at everyone else involved. I'm not saying i believed everything he said but he was clearly trying to explain his side and why things got the way they did.. Why is everyone so fast to believe he is totally lying, when these guys who don't have much more credit to their names people believe?. Ivey is no different as i believe everything Howard said about that situation cause that is Phil. Greedy and a degenerate. If it wasn't for being great at poker he would be flat broke. I lived in Las Vegas for over 10 years and met and dealt with many of these players he is talking about with loans out. I was involved in sports betting and alot of what he says about these guys is true. While i never met Howard personally i can tell you that most of those others i did. Plus i know many people who know even more. Erick Lindgren probably 7 or 8 years ago owed a very big time offshore sportsbook a few million and anyone that knew anything knew this to be true. So when i hear Daniel N defend him just cause he is a good friend, it kind of doesn't bode well. However i will say i have never heard anything said negatively about Daniel N so i will put that out there. I know Howard and everyone else made mistakes but who hasn't in this whole mess? Just saying don't believe everything these guys have to say either cause they are all liars too. Trust me.

    can u blame daniel? we all have a fuck up friend like e-dog. And the reason people don't trust howard is because he has lied to us throughout this whole process, i.e. segregated accounts, saying money was safe after april 15th, claiming he thought banking transactions were transparent? still waiting on my full tilt golf balls.
     
  15. E-Dog seems turrible at poker at least from every hand I have ever seen him play on TV.
     
  16. Very sad. IMO theyre all a POS including Negreanu. Id just like to see one article published that his ass doesnt have something to say. STFU already
  17. Everyone should be happy that Ivey killed the possibility of any deal other than pokerstars happening. Everyone would have gotten 10 cents on the dollar if that. He wanted out of his contract after the collapse and no one would let him go. Everyone was worried about their own wallets not yours if you ever thought different you need to re access. What makes me face palm is that everyone knew this could happen for years before it did. If you kept thousands of dollars on the site you should have known the risks.
  18. I think it's important to acknowledge that everything lederer said in the interview could easily be true. Owners of companies are responsible for a couple things. They are there to provide start up capital and appoint management. Apparently he fked up when it came to appointing management. Bitar was the one to blame. When you are the CEO of a company your main responsibility is communicating to owners and shareholders. He clearly did not do this. He also waited until it was too late when it came to the backlog. Stop blaming the owners. Just because one dude does some really fked up shit to squeeze as much money out of his customers doesn't mean you have to blame everyone involved. Owners aren't in charge of day to day operations. They are presented with a summary of how well the company is doing, thats about it. If the owners were never aware of the companies financial situation there was nothing they could've or should've done. This also happened very quickly. One day the company is running the next day is shut down. If they wouldn't have been shut down the company would still be running to this day. If you own a share in a company and you continually making a profit, are you going to ask questions? Bitar ran the company into the ground. Yes, the board should have acknowledged this earlier but stuff was just getting out, and before they knew it, the DOJ shut them down. They had no time to internally solve the problem. I'm not saying you can't be mad, just saying don't blame the owners. It's very likely they didn't have a role in these fraudulent actions.
     
  19.  
    Originally Posted by schockerr View Post

    I think it's important to acknowledge that everything lederer said in the interview could easily be true. Owners of companies are responsible for a couple things. They are there to provide start up capital and appoint management. Apparently he fked up when it came to appointing management. Bitar was the one to blame. When you are the CEO of a company your main responsibility is communicating to owners and shareholders. He clearly did not do this. He also waited until it was too late when it came to the backlog. Stop blaming the owners. Just because one dude does some really fked up shit to squeeze as much money out of his customers doesn't mean you have to blame everyone involved. Owners aren't in charge of day to day operations. They are presented with a summary of how well the company is doing, thats about it. If the owners were never aware of the companies financial situation there was nothing they could've or should've done. This also happened very quickly. One day the company is running the next day is shut down. If they wouldn't have been shut down the company would still be running to this day. If you own a share in a company and you continually making a profit, are you going to ask questions? Bitar ran the company into the ground. Yes, the board should have acknowledged this earlier but stuff was just getting out, and before they knew it, the DOJ shut them down. They had no time to internally solve the problem. I'm not saying you can't be mad, just saying don't blame the owners. It's very likely they didn't have a role in these fraudulent actions.

    Sorry bud i disagree....this it the way it works, the owner(s) of any company at the end of the day is responsible for everything whether good or bad....yup perhaps his dumb ass CEO fced up....yup perhaps there were more fck ups...but its the owner (s) that are liable and its thier responsibilty to rectify it as soon as possible...not ignore a 10 million + backlog just so he can get to his poker tournament!!!!
    And this guy can't even read a financial statement....but then why should he as long as his pockets are filled with lots of $$$$$$
    Will we ever hear the WHOLE truth?..prob not!!!
    I agree these scumbag crooks should of been in jail ages ago...why is it taking the DOJ so damn long ?...i don't get it....Ledrerer (and the other owners) your full of BS.
    Edited By: K5VERB Sep 25th, 2012 at 02:55 AM
 
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