Why do people tend to play very loose from the big blind position in a Limit Holdem tournament or cash game (I am ONLY referring to tables that are full or close to full, 7 to 10 people)?
I keep seeing this over and over in various situations, so I began to wonder if I was missing something.<READMORE>
My goal when I started thinking about this question was to find out the pros and cons of defending your Big Blind (BB) and calling when faced with a single raise in a limit game. I wanted to use basic logical reasoning without in depth calculations (for those, there are lots of books out there). So I thought I would share my ideas and I came up with the following:
PROS-
1) It is a good idea to play back at a raise sometimes to try and prevent people from picking on you. I know that I will often open for a raise with lesser holdings against someone that I know has a tendency to fold to a single raise in the BB.
2) You are usually getting decent pot odds to make the call. Obviously, the more people in the single raised pot, the better your pot odds.
a. Example- Bob is holding Js9s in the BB and post $2, Seat 4 raises to $4, Seats 6 & 7 call and the Small Blind (SB) folds. Pot contains $15 and it costs Bob $2 more to call. He is being offered 7.5 to 1 odds (not bad) with a decent drawing hand.
3) A loose image can often pay off big if used correctly. A few instances where this may occur:
a. If someone thinks you are willing to call any pre-flop raise from the BB, they may think twice before raising with mediocre hands when you are in this position.
b. If a good player has pegged you as a ‘calling station’ he will be less likely to try and bluff at you and more likely to give you some credit for a hand when you decide to bet/raise after the flop.
c. Opponents will have a harder time putting you on a hand if you always smooth call (no raises) when facing a raise in this position regardless of whether you have AA or 56.
CONS-
1) First and foremost, YOU ARE OUT OF POSITION. Ask yourself the question, “would I play this from Under the Gun (UTG)?” Once you make the call, you are first to act with the raiser and any callers to act behind you. It can essentially be compared to limping from UTG even though you already know that someone is representing a big hand behind you.
2) If you don’t hit a monster flop, you are usually forced to simply check/fold. Now you have lost two BB bets instead of just one. Yes, your opponent is most likely going to be making an automatic continuation bet after you check, but can you really call him with K or Q high or 2nd or 3rd pair? Obviously this can be dependent on the opponent, but regardless can be dangerous.
3) The good pot odds can be deceiving, especially in a tournament situation. Let’s go through a common tournament situation that I see to show you how the pot odds can reel you in but really hurt.
Bob (the average player) is in the big blind of a Multi-Table tournament. It is Limit Holdem and the blinds are 150/300, no antes. 52 people left and 30 people pay. Average stack is 3800 and Bob has 3300 before the hand.
He is dealt 7d 8d and it is folded to the tight/aggressive player with 8K in his stack. He raises from the cutoff and it folds to Bob. The pot contains 1050 (his 300 + the SB’s 150 + the raisers 600) and it cost him 300 to call. Giving him 3.5 to 1 to call. Based on his read up to this point, Bob can safely assume that his opponent either has two big cards or a decent sized pocket pair.
Many would argue that these odds say he should probably call, but then Bob remembers my first two CONS—“I’m out of position and I will need to hit a big hand. Also, I am only slightly below average and I have time to be patient and wait for a better spot. Hmmmmmm?”
“But I’m getting 3.5 to 1 with my suited connectors! Okay, okay” Bob decides to call and see a flop. FLOP- Ac Qd 2d--- Now he is faced with drawing at the pot and how to play his draw. Bob now thinks about his opponents holdings (A x?, K Q?, A Q?, or even Ad xd?) and he decides his opponent has hit something. Bob decides not to bet out with his draw expecting the automatic raise.
He checks and calls the 300 bet because the pot was offering him a strong 5.5 to 1 for his flush draw. The turn brings the 7c! Now Bob has more outs to ‘Improve’ his hand (only improve because none of his outs will give him the Nuts). Adding the two 7 cards and the three 8 cards left he now has 14 outs. He checks and his opponent bets. The pot odds are good once again. With 2450 now in the pot it costs Bob 600 to call. (We have all seen this when we draw at it, but never seems to happen when we are against someone else drawing it)---- The river brings a BLANK! Nothing! Nada! Bob doesn’t think a bluff would work here and check folds.
Now Bob has spent 55% of his stack instead of 9% of his stack if he folded pre-flop. He is short stacked and ends up busting out near the bubble. BUT, BUT, BUT- “The pot odds were there. I had to draw at it!” ------- (Then he goes to his favorite forum and posts: “I can’t ever catch a break. Why am I so unlucky? Wah, wah, wah! Blah, blah, blah!”
So now! What have I come up with in my conclusion? The same old thing: “poker is a game of situations” and there isn’t an answer to this question. Simply put! Every question regarding strategy for poker is dependent on far too many factors. There isn’t an answer to this question for every situation other than ‘it depends.’
I did come up with one other conclusion though- I need to slow down and look at each of these PROS and CONS , and the situation I am faced with before I decide to defend my BB with a marginal holding.
I also try to look for what others do with their blinds more. If the donkey defends with any two, I value bet with my big cards and I never try to steal from them with weak cards. Remember to stay creative and keep everyone thinking so I won’t know how to treat you when you are in the BB.
For what its worth,
beauright
</READMORE>
[x]Register Now
Limit Poker: Big blind defense with a call?[ return to main articles page ]
Comments
-
<p>I think is a good strategy to defend your BB. Is true that if in this position you have poor cards then a strong bet will sure blow you. What i need to know is how do you calculate the odds? 5.5 to 1 for example? What this numbers mean? Thanks!</p>
Return to Articles
Quick Navigation
- DanOBrienPoker (Feb 10 18:35:41)
RT @joshhillock: Know who Im voting for, informed by @DanOBrienPoker article about Ron Paul. Guy seems to want to make America what it p ...
- RGHall (Feb 10 18:19:51)
9350 going to 50/100
- Roothlus (Feb 10 18:17:05)
Fair warning: I will be tweeting a lot about Magic this weekend as there is a big tourney in Hawaii. So enjoy the undecipherable tweets.
- BenSpraggs (Feb 10 18:16:43)
I hear @simonhoward10 has applied for the England job after hearing that two of the players are Young and Bent! #wheyyy
- JonFriedberg (Feb 10 18:14:42)
I wish there was such a thing! RT @PokerScar: I just love using #ChiliNugget hashtag.
- The_DFish (Feb 10 18:05:08)
Day 1a @WorldPokerTour $3500 @SHRThePokerRoom got a fun table w @Jp4est @akat11 and Alex Venovski
- realcharder30 (Feb 10 17:59:15)
RT @coreyburbick: Playing $3500 wpt hardrock flagship today. Got a late reg table of @Matthew_Waxman @JCohen130 @noahjschwartz charder a ...
- UnreaLJamiL (Feb 10 17:58:51)
Started #fallsviewpokerclassic $2.5k. 500 ppl 10k starting stack
- KevinMacPhee (Feb 10 17:58:36)
RT @bluffmagazine: Tournament Tracker: MacPhee, De Meulder, & Mancuso Victorious http://t.co/2KrLxEbT
- JasonSomerville (Feb 10 17:58:21)
@RealKidPoker i understand the benefits, but wouldnt some1 have noticed if lifelong vegetarians/vegans didnt get cancer/heart disease by now
- RealKidPoker (Feb 10 17:56:29)
Monks in Mt. Athos no cancer no heart disease no Alzhiemers... No meat. In line with the China study connecting meat consumption to illness.
- JasonSomerville (Feb 10 17:56:10)
just finished streaming live! played some plo/plo8/nl. check it out http://t.co/fVLIpqMZ and follow me there to be updated when i stream!
- JCamby33 (Feb 10 17:52:56)
“@BryanLeskowitz: @JCamby33 just come to apt on Sat afternoon w me and Bergman, print heaps instead lol. Sigh, gg” might be up there Sunday
- TristanCre8ive (Feb 10 17:45:34)
RT @ralphmarston: Choose to be miserable & you'll find plenty of reasons to be miserable. Choose to be happy you'll find plenty of reaso ...
- SimonCharette (Feb 10 17:45:17)
2500 falls view event now! Table looks good
- StayCalmPoker (Feb 10 17:42:12)
RT @ultramusic: WOW! It's Friday! That means..... exactly 6 weeks until the gates open at Ultra 2012!
- Bond_18 (Feb 10 17:41:47)
Playing Day 1a of the Lucky Hearts Poker Open at Seminole Hard Rock in Florida. 30k to start...
- JBrikis (Feb 10 17:40:09)
@RealKidPoker cant dm you back bud you arent following me
- jesswelman (Feb 10 17:31:44)
Well a piece of my soul just died RT @vulture: DuMauri-yay! DreamWorks remaking Alfred Hitchcock’s "Rebecca." Finally! http://t.co/rSqwOE0e
- adamjunglen (Feb 10 17:29:09)
Absurd ticketing/seating system Fallsview. $2.5k turbo ish NLH starting soon.
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:24:55)
Just overheard a floor say there's about 500 ppl signed up.
- killahmcgillah (Feb 10 17:22:39)
@Patrolman35 i assume y'all are in KY cuz if @ISpewChips was in Vegas & didnt tell me he'd be primed for a serious whoopin' ;)
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:15:31)
In! And it was delayed. Tbl 24 seat 9. Come say hi.
- JonathanLittle (Feb 10 17:13:23)
I am playing day 1a of the $3500 event at hard rock Hollywood. @Bond_18 is on my right.
- JSHTrader (Feb 10 17:10:51)
taking the morning off today, relaxing then class then work at night
- ch0ppyPoker (Feb 10 17:10:40)
Waiting in a long line for Fallsview Poker Classic $2500. Looks like it'll be a late start. #fpc2012
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:10:13)
Just asked security head looking dude if they were delaying the start. Walks right by me and pretends not to hear #FallsviewWinterClassic
- junglemandan (Feb 10 17:08:30)
RT @RikardPokerTube: Nice 25 minute interview on PokerTube with @junglemandan Daniel "jungleman12" Cates http://t.co/mjvrtVQe #PokerTube
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:07:49)
Still in line after 30 mins. Again. Despite being already registered. Computer is broke and they're scanning tix for fakes. *eyeroll*
- FenwayKing (Feb 10 17:04:14)
RT @WhatTheFFacts: Reality show Jersey Shore is called "Macaroni Rascals' in Japan.
- TheRealAnsky (Feb 10 17:01:13)
Got ticket ty
- JBrikis (Feb 10 17:00:34)
If any of you poker players need a solid poker accountant, message me
- JBrikis (Feb 10 16:59:08)
RT @realDonaldTrump: “Obama doesn’t respect the fact that the money he wastes belongs to us. He thinks that the wealth you create (cont) ...
- JBrikis (Feb 10 16:57:56)
@RealKidPoker is there a slim chance that when the US gets legalized we will see Stars back? Or is that impossible without selling
- tchanpoker (Feb 10 16:54:58)
RT @HeroPoker: http://t.co/07Wx8Jz7 NEW SHOW UP with @tchanpoker with hosts @grunter321 & @Aaron_BigAzz The big Aussie Millions wrap up!
-
Recent PocketFives Awards
-
-
-
VnilaYoda
Triple Crown
Feb 7th, 2012
-
szusza84
$3 million
Feb 6th, 2012
-
Gettin Daize
$4 million
Jan 30th, 2012
-
Like PocketFIves on Facebook for a chance to win free P5s Gear every week!
Tweets from P5ers
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PocketFives Rankings
| Player | PLB | PRO | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
1 |
Flush_Entity | 6th 6,493 |
1st 9 |
|
2 |
NigDawG | 3rd 6,815 |
4th 17 |
|
3 |
Vinkyy | 2nd 6,907 |
9th 25 |
|
4 |
theczar19 | 11th 6,023 |
3rd 16 |
|
5 |
bananazoo | 7th 6,458 |
13th 28 |
|
6 |
1banditpanda | 4th 6,736 |
14th 28 |
|
7 |
Gettin Daize | 10th 6,034 |
6th 22 |
|
8 |
PokerKaiser | 5th 6,567 |
21st 33 |
|
9 |
810ofclubs | 18th 5,726 |
5th 18 |
|
10 |
paulgees81 | 14th 5,828 |
16th 29 |

| Country | Top 20 PLB |
P5s Members |
Prev Rank |
||
| 1 | 98818 | 1979 | 1st | ||
| 2 | 95551 | 1768 | 2nd | ||
| 3 | 91119 | 996 | 3rd | ||
| 4 | 87829 | 168 | 4th | ||
| 5 | 82004 | 10819 | 5th | ||
| 6 | 79709 | 701 | 6th | ||
| 7 | 75231 | 611 | 7th | ||
| 8 | 73607 | 326 | 8th | ||
| 9 | 73072 | 97 | 9th | ||
| 10 | 67372 | 83 | 10th |




