Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

Making Tough Decisions Easier[ return to main articles page ]

By: grapsfan
Published on Dec 15th, 2008
No Limit Hold’em is a complicated game. The breadth and depth of necessary decisions demanded are as varied as in chess, reversi, bridge or backgammon (which is most like poker in its luck element). Attempt to account for every variable in every decision and you’ll make yourself certifiably insane. The best way to handle difficult situations is to minimize their number. By eliminating as many external variables as possible, you can simplify your game, and your life playing it.

Game theory experts call this “play optimization.” There are moves you can make in a game which are correct, and cannot be exploited by your opponents. Let’s take a look at a common example in No Limit Hold’em tournaments. It is almost always correct to call with the likely-to-be worst hand if you’re getting 2:1 pot odds, since you are rarely much worse than 33% to win as an underdog.

- 75o is 34% against AKs
- A5s is 30% against AQo
- K4o is 28% against QQ

So let’s say you have one of these hands while playing an MTT. You’re in late position with a big stack, and the blinds are fairly short (less than 20 big blinds). You raise your standard 2.5x to 3x the big blind in a steal attempt, and the SB or BB shoves. Now you’re faced with a difficult decision…what’s his shoving range? Has he been tight or loose? How aggressive does he think I am? What does he think my range is, and what impact does that have on his range?

There’s an easy way around this. Your raise has to be enough to give you 2:1 on your money if you’re forced to call a re-raise. Your play is unexploitable pre-flop. You are getting the right price against the tightest shoving range (except your opponent is Allen Kessler).

How much do you bet? We can devise a fairly simple formula to find out. At the start of a hand, there are approximately 2.5 big blinds in the pot (SB + BB + antes). The short-stack in question has “S” big blinds remaining, which will also be part of the overall pot. We are looking for the “N” number of blinds to bet-and-raise.

When your opponent shoves, he’s calling N, and raising the rest of his stack, S – N. In order to get 2:1 on your money, the amount you’re calling off, (S – N), has to be ½ of the rest of the chips in the pot. Solving our equation with freshman algebra now looks like this:

(S – N) = ½ (S + N + 2.5)
2(S – N) = S + N + 2.5
S = 3N + 2.5
3N = S – 2.5
N = 1/3 S - .833

For simplicity’s sake, let’s call it N = 1/3S – 1.

Let’s assign some real numbers to see how accurately this works. The blinds are 150/300 with a 25 ante. Our targeted big blind has 5400 chips after posting the blind. Our equation says we should raise to 1500. If we do so, after our opponent shoves, we will have to call 3900 more. There are 5400 + 1500 + 300 + 150 + 225 = 7575 chips in the pot. Our pot odds are 1.95:1. Pretty close estimation from a simple formula.

Why not just shove? Well, if you’re the small blind and you’re stealing from the big, shoving is fine from a game theory perspective. But, in my experience, most players think you’re stronger if you just put out a raise than shove, so you’re actually losing fold equity by shoving than making the “N” bet.

So, do you make this play every time you have an opponent with the right stack size in the blinds? Personally, I save this play until the antes come in. Otherwise, you’re committing an extra blind with each raise to achieve the same 2:1 ratio. You’re also losing the opportunity to establish a tight image in the first five or six levels of a tournament, if you happen to want that kind of thing.

If your opponent in the big blind has also been known to be a big fan of the stop-and-go flop play, you may also wish to consider either tightening up your range for the “N” bet or just going with a standard raise. If you have a hand which needs a really specific flop to be good (low connectors or one-gappers, for example), you’re committing far too many chips pre-flop, and spewing them off with a flop fold to a stop-and-go.

Poker’s tough enough in the best of times. Developing tips and tricks to optimize what you’re doing can help weather the worst of variance storms. It’s worth the effort to find a way to make the tough decisions easier.

---

* Paul "grapsfan" Herzog has been a PocketFives.com Contributing Writer since 2005, and is a successful mid-stakes poker player. He can often be found playing online when he has free time away from his duties as a Software Testing Engineer for a Minnesota firm.


More Articles by grapsfan

I'm OK. You're OK.

Full Tilt Matrix SNG Tournaments

Reading Rainbow

Winning at Micro Stakes Poker

Competing in Games, not Sports

Let the Kids Play?

Summer Sabbatical

Book Review: Winning Poker Tournaments One Hand at a Time

Book Review: Harrington on Cash Games

Selective Memory

Book Review: Poker Wisdom of a Champion

Is Variance Making You Sick?

Greed Gone Wild: WSOP Final Table Rescheduled

Randomness and Predictability

The Advantage Player

Resolving, Again

-----

Comments

  1. <p>(S N) = ½ (S + N + 2.5)</p>
    <p>2(S N) = S + N + 2.5</p>
    <p>S = 3N + 2.5</p>
    <p>3N = S 2.5</p>
    <p>N = 1/3 S - .833</p>
    <p>Yup, made my decision easier fo sho.</p>
  2. <p>Where did you get a hand grenade?</p>
  3. <p>The depth of decision making is not nearly as indepth in poker as it is in chess.  </p>
     
  4. <p>Good advice on how to stray from ABC poker...</p>
  5. <p>chess is a game of complete information, you can clearly see every piece and in theory anticipate all possible moves. Poker is a game of incomplete information, you can not know what your opponent holds and because the possibilities are greater for each set of information poker decisions are infinitly more vast.  Perhaps if you are playing at the lowest level and sticking to the rules of "ABC" poker, but in that case your using an if-then theory that is marginally successful at best. with the adaptation of "next level" thinking the rules of probablities make it nearly impossible to argue that chess is more "in depth". I hear your argument, you are trying to consider the broad scope of all possible moves in chess, but so should you be in poker. You think its an accident that the "donkey" that overshoved on you twice does it a third time, you call, and he flips the rockets? maybe but I doubt it.</p>
     
  6. <p>oh and vn article as always sir.</p>
     
  7. <p>Another fine article by Graps. TY sir.</p>
  8. <p>Graps,</p>
    <p>I've done this often.  However, at one point I thought, "Am I actually just making a bet so I HAVE to call his shove?"</p>
    <p>What if calling the player's reship is wrong from a range vs. range point of view (pre-decision)?  For example, if I have 75o, and I do what you say to do, then I'm actually betting for the purpose of HAVING to call a shove.  </p>
    <p>I'm not saying your wrong, just putting that up for discussion.  </p>
  9. <p>Graps,</p>
    <p>I use this play alot, but never if I am looking for a fold, I always do it to induce a shove from the blinds with a worse hand. </p>
    <p>I am usually doing this with A2+, K9+, QT+. My reasoning is this: </p>
    <p>If I have a weaker hand than these, do I really want to get it in at just even odds? Do I really want to create that situation? The answer is most likely dependant on the # of BB's I have. If I have 120, what the hell, I'll do it. But more likely my "big stack" is in the 30-50 BB range. In this case, do I really want to get it in as a dog with such a big portion of my stack, probably not.</p>
    <p>But, when I have the range that I noted above, the play makes more sense. With these hands, If I just shove preflop, I fold out a lot of hands worse than mine, and none of the ones that are ahead of me. But if I make the raise to 1500, then the hands that are ahead of me reship and I call (same result as if I had shoved). BUt, many of the hands behind me will reship (A2+, K2+,Q7+) hands that would have, in most cases, folded to my shove.</p>
     
  10. <p>I forgot to mention. After he reships and you call, if you find yourself behind and needing to suckout, then, when you inevitably hit your miracle card, it is always appropriate to type/saythe following:</p>
    <p>weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee e</p>
     
  11. <p>you did mention losing fold equity if you just shove it all in. </p>
    <p>but your tip basically discredits fold equity anyway.</p>
    <p>I understand the percentages getting 2-1 on your money, even as a dog in the hand, but whether or not your opponent has a tight or loose shoving range, shouldnt you leave yourself some fold equity?  </p>
    <p>some good points though graps, maybe this strategy could be compared to 'squeeze play' , possibly you could clear this up for me ..ty.</p>
  12. <p>Thanks for reading, everyone....</p>
    <p>Jackaaron, I think there are orbits when you'd just fold rather than making an "N" bet.  You're right that it's about being better than 2:1 against the entirety of his shipping range.  A lot of smaller hands don't add up right.  75off might be OK, but 94off, not so much.  It'd take a lot of playing around with a utility like PokerStove to figure out what ranges you feel comfortable with.</p>
    <p>Nate, I'm definitely tightening up my range with 30-40 blinds...basically, I want to make sure I'm not putting more than about 20% of my stack at risk.  I just pulled that number out of thin air a bit, but you're right that it's a monster stack play.</p>
    <p>Racer, I'm not sure if I'm understanding your use of "fold equity" in this case.  It's not about MY fold equity...it's about sizing your bets such that your opponent doesn't have any.</p>
    <p>This play is completely different than a squeeze play, where there's a couple of people limping, or raise & call, in the pot, and you shove over the top.  That's a play, as Bond mentioned in a recent article, which has fallen out of favor some recently in tougher MTTs...and I use it sparingly in the smaller buy-ins I play.  The problem with the squeeze play is that everyone's written about it.  When Phil Gordon knows...everyone knows.  In that case, you have less fold equity than you'd think because everyone puts your range at ATC.</p>
     
    Thread Starter
  13. <p>ok, so your opponent doesnt have fold equity when you size your bet in regards to his stack, thats only if he calls your raise. If he flat calls, or reshoves, its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar so to speak.</p>
    <p>Im not disagreeing with your point in the article, i understanding winning tournaments takes timely moves such as the one you point out, but many times a BB will call a standard raise, and you have position to bet out and maybe out play an opponent post flop. Conversely, if you commit yourself as 2 to 1 on ur money, it will look more like a steal and when u get reshoved on you will likely be pricing yourself in as a dog in the hand.  </p>
    <p>I think if your one of the bigger stacks this would work just fine, maybe it will work a good majority of the time, if the timing is right, but my luck i walk into AA at the worst time late in tourney with  5,7o lol.</p>
  14. <p>Thanks for the greeat article.  Nice work.</p>
  15. <p>i think maybe the idea here is to make a bet that may PREVENT him from shoving light, knowing that you're giving yourself the odds to call his shove...I'm sure that ultimately, the idea is not to force yourself to get it in bad. Thoughts?</p>
  16. <p>If your raise is smaller, there range is wider, so the equity should be the same imo. If you're raising 5 bb it's so obvious that you will call that villain will be tight instead of very loose if you only raise 2.5bb.  You should also fold K4 and 75 in this position imo.</p>
    <p>Not very useful article imo.</p>
 

Return to Articles

Quick Navigation