Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

Playing Flush Draws with Suited Connectors Out of Position[ return to main articles page ]

By: dmschec
Published on Jan 25th, 2009
You are a few hours into a multi table tournament. Your stack is 26k and blinds are 300/600 with a 75 chip ante. You find yourself in the small blind with 8 7. The action is folded to the cutoff, a thinking regular with 25k, who open-raises to 1,500. The button folds and action is on you in the small blind. Although there is nothing wrong with folding here, you decide to call and the big blind folds. The flop comes down A 9 2. How should you proceed?

Before we discuss possible options for playing the hand, we should try to put the villain on a potential range of hands. Let’s say that his range includes all pocket pairs, probably all suited aces, unsuited aces 8 and up, and all broadway cards. For those of you who use Pokerstove, we are defining his range as: 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A8o+, KTo+, QT. We can safely assume that our opponent will be continuation betting 85% of the time here. I would expect that a smart thinking player would sometimes check behind with high pocket pairs with lots of showdown value.

Given that we expect the villain to continuation bet roughly 85% of the time, what is the optimal way to play our hand? Of course if we knew what hand villain had, playing our 8 7 would be easy. When he has random broadway cards like KQ KJ QJ we would check raise for maximum value. When he has strong aces and sets we would check call to draw to our flush for the cheapest possible price. But because poker is a game of limited information, and we don’t know what villain has, we have to decide how to play the hand optimally against villain’s RANGE of hands.

One option is to lead out on the flop. The reason I don’t like this option is simple: villain knows that we know that he is continuation betting most of the time. Therefore, this would almost never be our line with a super strong hand like a set. We can expect a thinking opponent to raise us for value with most of his aces and flat with pocket pairs. When villain has broadway cards he might float us or re-raise as a bluff since he knows we aren’t leading out with a very strong hand that often. This line is bad against a smart thinking player then because (a) our semi-bluff is almost never generating a fold, and (b) sometimes villain will re-raise us and we are put in a tough spot where we are either pushed off our draw or forced to 4-bet shove (if we are called we are at best a 3:1 dog and we can’t expect to have much fold equity after villain 3-bets).

Another option is to check-raise. This line will work well against some of the hands in villains range, including small to mid pocket pairs and his random broadway hands. We can expect villain to fold hands like these and we will win a big pot. The problem, though, is that we are going to get 4-bet shoved on a fair amount of the time. Villain’s hand range which we defined earlier contains a ton of random aces. Three of the weak aces have made two pairs (A9s,A9o,A2s) and we can’t expect to generate folds from hands like AJ AQ and AK. Therefore we can expect villain to 4-bet shove with a fair amount of his range, at which point we will be priced in and forced to put our tournament on the line as a 3:1 dog.

There is a third option here, and I think it’s the best: Check-call the continuation bet on the flop and lead on non-spade turns. This line allows us to lose the least against strong hands like two pairs and strong aces while still pushing out broadway cards and low to mid pocket pairs. It also sets us up perfectly for a shove on the river if we get flatted on the turn and then successfully draw to the flush. Let’s say, for example, that villain has KQo. He will continuation-bet the flop, and since we are check-calling, our line looks like it could be a strong hand. Our lead on the turn will be much more believable than a lead on the flop, as it looks like we could be protecting a made hand from the flush draw. Furthermore, because the pot will be bigger at that point, a re-raise bluff from the villain will force him to commit his whole stack.

One of the most interesting aspects of the line I am proposing is that it allows us the potential to draw to all five cards at a price that we are defining. If we lead the turn for half the pot, a good thinking regular probably isn’t 4-bet shoving a non-two-pair ace like A3s. If you don’t have a stomach for math you can stop reading here. The pot on the flop is 4,350 (750 antes + 1,500 pre-flop raiser + 1,500 our call + 600 folded big blind). We have 24,500 chips and villain has 23,500. We can expect his continuation bet to be around 2500. This means the pot is now 9,350 - our stack is 22k and villain’s stack is 21k.

Note here that if we had check-raised the flop, it would have cost us at least 7k and if villain 4-bet-shoves it will cost us our last 17k which is another 12 big blinds. If the turn blanks, we can lead for half the pot with a bet of around 4,600. At this point, the villain probably WON’T re-raise us for value anymore with every ace (maybe only two pairs and AQ-AK) and we can expect to generate folds from random broadway hands. Hands like ATo and ATs, which would have 4-bet shoved us on the flop, now usually just call and allow us to draw to a river card AT OUR PRICE. If villain calls, the pot will be ~18k and we will be left with ~18k ourselves. If we make our flush on the river we can shove for a pot-sized bet and if we miss we can check-fold and leave ourselves with 30 big blinds.




dmschec

Recent Scores for dmschec

$36,156.00
$215 buy-in, Sunday Second Chance - [$250k guaranteed] on PokerStars. 11/30/2008, 2 place for 36,156.00
$24,310.00
$100 buy-in, $60,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) on FullTiltPoker. 01/17/2009, 1 place for 24,310.00
$12,012.00
$200 buy-in, Turbo $40K Guarantee on FullTiltPoker. 01/06/2009, 1 place for 12,012.00
Current Sliding PLB Score: 3,902.14
(98.87th percentile)

Comments

  1. <p>the only thing i dont get is, if we lead out the turn, what to do on the river if we get flatted, and also what to do if we get raised on the turn?</p>
  2. <p>i like the thought process good article</p>
  3. <p>I also liked the article.  And s1nnr..the last line of the article..if we miss river..its ch/f if we get raised on turn..fold.</p>
    <p>glgl all</p>
  4. <p>fold or 3bet pre imo. just woke up though too tired to read the whole article</p>
  5. <p>I like the lead  on the turn.</p>
    <p>How often do you think he will check behind on the turn?</p>
    <p>At the levels I play (micro), check raise on the turn or if the turn checks checks, I lead the river and I take that pot down most of the tiem.   But I understand against a thinking player that line makes no sence and you get called by any pair.</p>
    <p>Nice article.  </p>
  6. <p>very good articel/thinking process</p>
    <p> i like the lead out on the turn,which could look like a set or two pair, not like a fl draw...and you are right a singel A probably won´t reraise on the turn...</p>
    <p>but one thing i recommend to think about it is aslo to lead out with your monsters on the flop since most players think we wouln´t lead out with our good hands, so you often get a reraise from a singel A or a complete bluff...</p>
     
  7. <p>dschec imo</p>
     
  8. <p>The lead on the turn is iffy in my opinion.......Many good thinking players will see this as a blocking bet trying to draw for cheap. I like folding pre or 3-betting preflop. </p>
     
  9. <p>I think flatting 1200 and playing this hand OOP to not only the c/o but the BB if he decides to call (with odds of 5-1 in mid position is more than likely) is just awful. Fold preflop or 3-bet to 3.8k ish. BBs calling range will much tighter and will fold 75% of his range to your 3bet, as well as the thinking c/o who folds 75% of the range you've assigned. He only has to fold roughly every other time to make this play profitable. If he pushes, you can easily get away from your hand without any real damage.</p>
    <p>You're sitting comfortable with an M of 18, there really isn't much of a reason to flat and play a big pot out of position at this point in the tournament against a tough player as you stated, whose stack is close enough to ours to bust us, and possibly even the big blind. Try to take it down preflop or dish it imo. </p>
     
  10. <p>lol thanks rf, helpful comment</p>
     
    Thread Starter
  11. <p>gotta play devils advocate :)</p>
     
  12. <p>D4 I think your line is a totally fine way to play the hand, and in fact it's probably the safer/better approach. My article tried to approach the situation from a strictly postflop perspective.</p>
    <p>Folding or 3betting pre is fine/good etc</p>
     
    Thread Starter
  13. <p>damn  sick skills to lead the flop and 4 bet his raise</p>
  14. <p>Agreed, and if you were to get into the situation at hand I think you pretty much laid out all optimal lines, well done.</p>
     
  15. <p>mbn to ever accume 26k at 3-600 blinds imo</p>
  16. <p>What Billy said and what's wrong with playing postflop poker?  All you people want to do is 3bet fold or get in an 80bb pot seeing who can outlevel who....play a friggin flop for once.</p>
  17. <p>Very incite full.  I like the check call option.  I agree that this line will ultimately give you pot control.</p>
    <p>What happens if the villan is holding KQs and you both make the flush? Are we going broke here?</p>
  18. <p>ya, what bef said, IMO</p>
  19. <p>GENIUS IMO         ONNEEE TIMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE</p>
    <p>STEAMROLLLLLLLL</p>
  20. <p>check raise all in on flop weeeeee!!!</p>
 

Return to Articles

Quick Navigation