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PPA: U.S. Player Balances Not Proceeds of Illegal Gambling[ return to main articles page ]

By: Dan Cypra    [See all articles by Dan Cypra]
Published on Aug 3rd, 2012
According to a Forbes article published on Tuesday, "There are people at the Department of Justice who are uncomfortable with the idea of paying U.S. players money that was won in online poker games played on Full Tilt's website." In essence, rather than being paid back their full balances, Full Tilt Poker players may only receive their initial deposits.

Educating the DOJ about the merits of paying back account balances in full is the Poker Players Alliance (PPA), a 1.2 million member strong poker lobbying group whose Executive Director, John Pappas, sat down with PocketFives on Thursday.

To start off, Forbes summed up the argument for why U.S. players' deposits should be paid back, as opposed to full balances: "The Department of Justice has consistently taken the position that online poker violates U.S. law. This position is what led to [Preet] Bharara's crackdown on the online poker industry in 2011, the shutdown of the U.S.-facing websites of PokerStars and Full Tilt, the indictment of 11 individuals, and a $3 billion civil forfeiture lawsuit."

Forbes summarized, "Since online poker is a no-no, according to the Federal Government, lawyers working for the Government are not so sure that the Department of Justice should be paying out money that was won in online poker games."

Pappas conceded that no decision has been made regarding what U.S. players will see returned to them from their Full Tilt Poker accounts. But, he added, "I don't see any way they would make any determination that just deposits would be the rational move. It's simply much easier to pay off account balances. It's also consistent with what they've already allowed for. They already allowed PokerStars to repay full account balances. They had given Full Tilt permission to do so as well, but it was then they found out that Full Tilt didn't have the money to pay players back."

Pappas (pictured) called the argument that player balances are the result of illegal gambling "specious," telling PocketFives, "It's a specious argument that player balances are the proceeds of illegal gambling. I would challenge anyone to show me the Federal law that says it's illegal for players to play online poker. The winnings are not rake; it is players' money. Overall, there are a number of reasons from the logistical side, historical side, and legal side for why they should pay players' account balances in full."

If the historical, logistical, and legal arguments all point to players receiving their account balances in full, then why the debate? Why would Forbes and other media outlets concede that the process is up in the air? Pappas explained, "No one has said what the process will be one way or the other, so there is debate. I think it's best for us to educate the DOJ on why refunding 100% of players' balances makes sense and hopefully they'll make that determination."

Once a framework for repaying players in the United States is determined, how long will it take? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Pappas prognosticated, "This is going to be a major undertaking for the DOJ. I think players would much prefer that they get it right rather than get it done fast, though, and I think we need to be cognizant of that. This is a completely new thing for the DOJ to deal with. Their staff will need to deliberate on how they will disperse funds."

As a result of the uncertainty, the PPA has launched a Repayment Resource Center. Right now, no information on the repayment process is available, but players are encouraged to enter their name and e-mail address in order to receive updates as they become available.

Related Articles:

PokerStars Purchase of Full Tilt Finalized, Isai Scheinberg to Step Down

PokerStars: "We Plan to Reopen Full Tilt"

Full Tilt Apologizes to Customers Who "Endured a Long and Difficult Period"

PPA, Ray Bitar, Chris Ferguson Comment on Full Tilt Sale
Full Tilt Lawyer: Criteria for U.S. Player Withdrawals Not Determined

Comments

  1. I wonder if I deposited more than $2,300? hmm...tell me that FTP and I'll tell you what side I take ;)
     
  2.  
    Originally Posted by chrisp200 View Post

    I wonder if I deposited more than $2,300? hmm...tell me that FTP and I'll tell you what side I take ;)

    So if we deposited money on FTP and lost it we should get that money back too??
  3. Only refunding deposits would be a disaster for players that worked their asses off to get good and make money, only to get back nothing and have the degens get all their money back. I want to thank the PPA for helping so much to get this right and if I get my balance back, I will definitely be donating some to them.
    Edited By: MikeBucks Aug 3rd, 2012 at 01:18 AM
     
  4. Do you get your deposits back if you donked it away??? I have all my records. I thought it was established that the actual act of playing poker wasn't illegal. The DoJ just wants to keep the excess money. Plus add up all the accounts that people are not going to bother with. Mine is under a hundred so I am not bothering.
  5. "Uncomfortable with the idea of paying U.S. players money",
    but very comfortable keeping and spending this so called tainted money.
    Edited By: greg5 Aug 3rd, 2012 at 01:27 AM
     
  6. ok, im probably a net positive balance with deposits, esp since i was depositing with ftp and transferring to pokerstars.....my balance was $50, but my deposits were substantially more.....Ill take my deposits back please...rofl
  7. I was wondering why the DoJ didn't just have PokerStars pay the players.So now the DoJ can be seen has "Prosecuting for profit" by the entire world.If only our government was as honest as PokerStars.
  8. We could start a new "Biggest Loser" show..about the biggest loser in FTP history who is suddenly a millionaire..he had a zero balance, but now he's ballin'..
  9. you mean i get all my losses back? Sweet! Donkeys 1, Grinders 0.
  10.  
    Originally Posted by wickedfamous View Post

    you mean i get all my losses back? Sweet! Donkeys 1, Grinders 0.

    Guess it doesnt pay to have a 140% roi in the month of February before BF
  11. Total amount of US deposits is waaaaaay more than total amount still in US player accounts. However, a high % of these deposits will go unclaimed...
  12. Initial deposits? funny...ok, gimme my 20 back
  13. wish they did this with row players
     
  14. lol the idea alone... get the hell out of ur country
  15. I won't believe it if I end up reading it. Play that angle.:)
  16. So when we cashed out on Stars we received our full balances but now since the DOJ has our money they get to change the rules? Dont see how they can let Stars do it one way and then have FTP do it another.
     
  17. This would be the biggest joke ever.
     
  18. Why in the HELL doesn't the DOJ let Pokerstars buy all the Fulltilt assets and Fulltilt account balances and then let POKERSTARS administer the refunding of all the Fulltilt account balances. Pokerstars could get all this done in just a few days, but the CLOWNS at the DOJ are gonna now f**k around and this is gonna drag on for many more months or years. The DOJ needs a FULL housecleaning of personnel. The DOJ is a ship of fools with no rudder.
  19. I keep hearing about account balances but im not hearin shit about bounced checks from fulltilt or checks that were never received which in my case is more than ten times than what i had in my fulltilt account. Just curious if anyone has any info on the subject im sure others are probably wondering the same.
     
  20. So playing poker is illegal in the us? I feel like the DOJ is trying to scare players by withholding information about this process.
     
 
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