I pride myself on being honest in this blog, and I've always done my best to stay focused on the money and how to help people make more of it. You may not like it because I'm not going to say very nice things about brick and mortar poker in general, and more specifically about large tournaments. The fact is they aren't a very good value, even for an excellent player.
Last week I played in the $1,000 buy-in main event at the Canterbury Park Fall Poker Classic.
"It's our home tournament, you have to play" Beanie said. <READMORE>I wasn't planning on playing until the night before when my conversation with Beanie (and some thinking about the huge prize pool) changed my mind. Here's a breakdown of why that was a bad choice.
Taxes. Taxes are the biggest problem with B&M poker. Sure I pay taxes on my online play, but I can average the whole thing out for the year and save myself a lot of money. If you win a big B&M tournament you pay the full taxes on the win.
Fees. You pay much larger fees in a B&M tournament than you pay online. You pay the house fee as well as a percentage of the prize pool for dealers, and often the winner gives the dealer a tip as well.
Time. A B&M tournament takes much longer than it's online counterpart.
Variance. No matter how good the structure is you will see less hands per level than you see online. The event I mentioned earlier had 50 minute rounds which is very generous. Given the starting stacks, blind structure, and round times the tournemant was about the same structure as a tournament on Party, which is the fastest structure of the major sites.
My partner Hatfield won a $300+30 event during the Fall Poker Classic, so I'm going to use that as an example. There was a deal made, but for simplicity we'll assume that there was no deal.
His win would have been $32,000 without a deal. Taxes would be about $8,000 and they take 4% for tournament staff, which is another $1,280. This leaves our hero with about 23k after an investment of about 13 hours of his time, for an hourly rate of $1,747 per hour.
If he had played online his 32k goes right into his account and any losses for the year can be claimed against it on his tax forms. When the whole year is considered for taxes as a professional gambler the taxes are lower and there is no 4% fee. a tournament with 300 entries online would have taken about 4 hours and included no driving time. His expectation after taxes for his online win would be about 25k. This makes his hourly rate about $6,250 per hour.
The variance online might be lower if he played at a site like UB with a better structure or if he played more than one tournament at a time, and his time investment was much lower. I firmly believe his win rate would be higher as well considering the much stronger play I have seen in the live tournaments when the buy-in is above $100.
When you move up to events like the World Poker Tour you see an even larger difference in the hourly rate vs. playing a few large online events. The WPT would be a lot of fun, and being on TV would certainly be neat, but remember our mantra - "It's about the money, that's how we keep score."
</READMORE>
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The truth about brick and mortar poker. [ return to main articles page ]
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- RGHall (Feb 10 18:19:51)
9350 going to 50/100
- Roothlus (Feb 10 18:17:05)
Fair warning: I will be tweeting a lot about Magic this weekend as there is a big tourney in Hawaii. So enjoy the undecipherable tweets.
- BenSpraggs (Feb 10 18:16:43)
I hear @simonhoward10 has applied for the England job after hearing that two of the players are Young and Bent! #wheyyy
- JonFriedberg (Feb 10 18:14:42)
I wish there was such a thing! RT @PokerScar: I just love using #ChiliNugget hashtag.
- The_DFish (Feb 10 18:05:08)
Day 1a @WorldPokerTour $3500 @SHRThePokerRoom got a fun table w @Jp4est @akat11 and Alex Venovski
- realcharder30 (Feb 10 17:59:15)
RT @coreyburbick: Playing $3500 wpt hardrock flagship today. Got a late reg table of @Matthew_Waxman @JCohen130 @noahjschwartz charder a ...
- UnreaLJamiL (Feb 10 17:58:51)
Started #fallsviewpokerclassic $2.5k. 500 ppl 10k starting stack
- KevinMacPhee (Feb 10 17:58:36)
RT @bluffmagazine: Tournament Tracker: MacPhee, De Meulder, & Mancuso Victorious http://t.co/2KrLxEbT
- JasonSomerville (Feb 10 17:58:21)
@RealKidPoker i understand the benefits, but wouldnt some1 have noticed if lifelong vegetarians/vegans didnt get cancer/heart disease by now
- RealKidPoker (Feb 10 17:56:29)
Monks in Mt. Athos no cancer no heart disease no Alzhiemers... No meat. In line with the China study connecting meat consumption to illness.
- JasonSomerville (Feb 10 17:56:10)
just finished streaming live! played some plo/plo8/nl. check it out http://t.co/fVLIpqMZ and follow me there to be updated when i stream!
- JCamby33 (Feb 10 17:52:56)
“@BryanLeskowitz: @JCamby33 just come to apt on Sat afternoon w me and Bergman, print heaps instead lol. Sigh, gg” might be up there Sunday
- TristanCre8ive (Feb 10 17:45:34)
RT @ralphmarston: Choose to be miserable & you'll find plenty of reasons to be miserable. Choose to be happy you'll find plenty of reaso ...
- SimonCharette (Feb 10 17:45:17)
2500 falls view event now! Table looks good
- StayCalmPoker (Feb 10 17:42:12)
RT @ultramusic: WOW! It's Friday! That means..... exactly 6 weeks until the gates open at Ultra 2012!
- Bond_18 (Feb 10 17:41:47)
Playing Day 1a of the Lucky Hearts Poker Open at Seminole Hard Rock in Florida. 30k to start...
- JBrikis (Feb 10 17:40:09)
@RealKidPoker cant dm you back bud you arent following me
- jesswelman (Feb 10 17:31:44)
Well a piece of my soul just died RT @vulture: DuMauri-yay! DreamWorks remaking Alfred Hitchcock’s "Rebecca." Finally! http://t.co/rSqwOE0e
- adamjunglen (Feb 10 17:29:09)
Absurd ticketing/seating system Fallsview. $2.5k turbo ish NLH starting soon.
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:24:55)
Just overheard a floor say there's about 500 ppl signed up.
- killahmcgillah (Feb 10 17:22:39)
@Patrolman35 i assume y'all are in KY cuz if @ISpewChips was in Vegas & didnt tell me he'd be primed for a serious whoopin' ;)
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:15:31)
In! And it was delayed. Tbl 24 seat 9. Come say hi.
- JonathanLittle (Feb 10 17:13:23)
I am playing day 1a of the $3500 event at hard rock Hollywood. @Bond_18 is on my right.
- JSHTrader (Feb 10 17:10:51)
taking the morning off today, relaxing then class then work at night
- ch0ppyPoker (Feb 10 17:10:40)
Waiting in a long line for Fallsview Poker Classic $2500. Looks like it'll be a late start. #fpc2012
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:10:13)
Just asked security head looking dude if they were delaying the start. Walks right by me and pretends not to hear #FallsviewWinterClassic
- junglemandan (Feb 10 17:08:30)
RT @RikardPokerTube: Nice 25 minute interview on PokerTube with @junglemandan Daniel "jungleman12" Cates http://t.co/mjvrtVQe #PokerTube
- RGHall (Feb 10 17:07:49)
Still in line after 30 mins. Again. Despite being already registered. Computer is broke and they're scanning tix for fakes. *eyeroll*
- FenwayKing (Feb 10 17:04:14)
RT @WhatTheFFacts: Reality show Jersey Shore is called "Macaroni Rascals' in Japan.
- TheRealAnsky (Feb 10 17:01:13)
Got ticket ty
- JBrikis (Feb 10 17:00:34)
If any of you poker players need a solid poker accountant, message me
- JBrikis (Feb 10 16:59:08)
RT @realDonaldTrump: “Obama doesn’t respect the fact that the money he wastes belongs to us. He thinks that the wealth you create (cont) ...
- JBrikis (Feb 10 16:57:56)
@RealKidPoker is there a slim chance that when the US gets legalized we will see Stars back? Or is that impossible without selling
- tchanpoker (Feb 10 16:54:58)
RT @HeroPoker: http://t.co/07Wx8Jz7 NEW SHOW UP with @tchanpoker with hosts @grunter321 & @Aaron_BigAzz The big Aussie Millions wrap up!
- scott_seiver (Feb 10 16:50:30)
@steveodwyer woooooooow
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