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Back Taxes?

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  1. Prestonluv Prestonluv is offline Hi. I'm awesome.

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 5:02am)

    Hi,

    I was just curious if anyone else out there is worried about back taxes they might have to make?

    Whomever has money transferred to their bank account from tilt/stars/ub might be red flagged by the feds to the IRS.

    Especially those with high amounts online.

    Now, i know many people have not paid taxes on their poker winnings the last few years, even some of the pros.

    Do any of you think that the IRS might go after back taxes? Will they look at your bank account the past few years?

    I mean..if you have 20k on tilt now going to your account that is stuck in lieu..wont this red flag the gov/irs for an audit on your prior years returns?

    Can they even do this? If they can, i would be worried.
    Edited By: Prestonluv Apr 25th, 2011 at 05:04 AM
  2. wickedfamous wickedfamous is offline

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 5:12am) in reply to Prestonluv

    I'm all but certain this is what will happen, touched on this on this thread http://www.pocketfives.com/f10017/sick-feeling-636033/
  3. Prestonluv Prestonluv is offline Hi. I'm awesome.

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 5:16am) in reply to wickedfamous

     
    Originally Posted by wickedfamous View Post

    I'm all but certain this is what will happen, touched on this on this thread http://www.pocketfives.com/f10017/sick-feeling-636033/

    yeah, this would be my biggest fear.

    I mean you cant say that its not deserved. But, talk about hitting someone when a persons down.

    Some people will be crazy fucked up if this happens
    Thread Starter
  4. pokerscrub1 pokerscrub1 is offline

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 5:40am) in reply to Prestonluv

    I think its possible, but very unlikely. I think these government agencies are a lot less connected than a lot of people realize. I also don't think it would make financial sense to audit every player that cashes out for a significant sum of money on one of the sites. I think it would cost the IRS more to investigate all these accounts than they would probably collect.

    Also I think the government has shown through their actions thus far that they are not going after the players directly, but much more the sites and payment processors. The fact that they made a deal so quickly to get the players our money back, is evidence of this and the fact that they want to minimize public blowback. This is just speculation though...
    Edited By: pokerscrub1 Apr 25th, 2011 at 05:42 AM
     
  5. Prestonluv Prestonluv is offline Hi. I'm awesome.

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 5:52am) in reply to pokerscrub1

    I just think its something we should look into from a legal standpoint.

    gotta be prepared.
    Thread Starter
  6. wickedfamous wickedfamous is offline

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 5:54am) in reply to Prestonluv

    Let's not forget, they did all this on tax day. If you filed on time, hopefully you filed your true income. I guess if you blew off your taxes, that might work out a little better.
  7. donkiman donkiman is offline

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 8:13am) in reply to wickedfamous

    Alot of people paid taxes on money they may never see...
     
  8. Dyzalot Dyzalot is online now

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 8:26am) in reply to Prestonluv

    They could have done the same thing with all the neteller money too, but didn't so I doubt they will in this case as well.
     3
  9. PizzityPizzwnd PizzityPizzwnd is offline

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 12:05pm) in reply to donkiman

     
    Originally Posted by Prestonluv View Post

    I just think its something we should look into from a legal standpoint.

    gotta be prepared.


    Being prepared is paying taxes on time on your poker winnings, not waiting till you get caught. No idea whats going to happen, but is it a possibility imo? yes. So GL to anyone who didnt pay taxes to begin with.

     
    Originally Posted by donkiman View Post

    Alot of people paid taxes on money they may never see...

    this
    Edited By: PizzityPizzwnd Apr 25th, 2011 at 12:07 PM
     
  10. Arobinson11 Arobinson11 is offline

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    Apr 25th, 2011 (4/25/2011 10:24pm) in reply to PizzityPizzwnd

    Pay your taxes so this doesn't happen, will have no sympathy for anyone who gets audited.
     1
  11. CalBandGreat CalBandGreat is offline

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    Apr 26th, 2011 (4/26/2011 12:28am) in reply to Prestonluv

     
    Originally Posted by Prestonluv View Post

    yeah, this would be my biggest fear.

    I mean you cant say that its not deserved. But, talk about hitting someone when a persons down.

    Some people will be crazy fucked up if this happens

    Lol it is not kicking someone when they are down if they go after people who never paid their taxes on income that they earned. They will not only go after back taxes, but they will hit you with all sorts of penalties and fees. I don't want to scare anyone, but they can put you in jail for tax evasion. I honestly don't know if that is even a possibility in this case, but there are certainly people in jail for tax evasion.

    I have no clue how likely it is that they will go after these people, but it makes sense to me that they will, there is a lot of money in online poker and it would be pretty easy for them to look into your bank records and see a bunch of wire transfers or checks that were deposited. I'm proud to say that I have always paid all of my taxes and with everything that has gone down, I sure wouldn't be sleeping very well if I didn't. I'm sure there will be some people who will be financially runied by an audit and they really only have themselves to blame.
    Edited By: CalBandGreat Apr 26th, 2011 at 12:29 AM
     
  12. tyson219 tyson219 is online now Moderator

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    Apr 26th, 2011 (4/26/2011 12:43am) in reply to CalBandGreat

    Someone with a legal degree should comment, but I don't believe the DOJ can legally share this information with non-parties. I don't believe the IRS/Treasury is a party (i.e., the plaintiff is the DOJ and not the entire US Govt.), thus the IRS won't even have access to this information.

    I don't think people should be worried. That said, if you didn't pay taxes on any substantial amount you won, I seriously hope you get audited.
     969 
  13. StayCalm StayCalm is offline

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    Apr 26th, 2011 (4/26/2011 12:47am) in reply to tyson219

    How could they go after back taxes by just seeing you cash out? They don't know when you won the money. Wouldn't it be more realistic to think that you would just owe more taxes in 2011?
  14. Mr Gobbles Mr Gobbles is offline

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    Apr 26th, 2011 (4/26/2011 8:07am) in reply to tyson219

     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    Someone with a legal degree should comment, but I don't believe the DOJ can legally share this information with non-parties. I don't believe the IRS/Treasury is a party (i.e., the plaintiff is the DOJ and not the entire US Govt.), thus the IRS won't even have access to this information.
     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post


    I don't think people should be worried. That said, if you didn't pay taxes on any substantial amount you won, I seriously hope you get audited.

    That's what I was wondering and would very much like to know more about..
  15. Automatic Loser Automatic Loser is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2011 (4/27/2011 3:42am) in reply to Mr Gobbles

    Let's say hypothetically that someone has been playing poker for two or so years. In that amount of time he has won a decent amount of money, but has never withdrawn. This person doesn't mind paying taxes on his winnings, but just never did because he didn't have the money to. Once he receives his money he wants to pay taxes on his winnings. What happens? What's his move?
  16. Oo DISCO oO Oo DISCO oO is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2011 (4/27/2011 4:12am) in reply to Automatic Loser

     
    Originally Posted by Automatic Loser View Post

    Let's say hypothetically that someone has been playing poker for two or so years. In that amount of time he has won a decent amount of money, but has never withdrawn. This person doesn't mind paying taxes on his winnings, but just never did because he didn't have the money to. Once he receives his money he wants to pay taxes on his winnings. What happens? What's his move?

    go to an accountant and pay taxes on your income.
  17. 13inches 13inches is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2011 (4/27/2011 11:35pm) in reply to Prestonluv

    The Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) requires all U.S. banks to report daily aggregate deposits of $10,000 or more to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (part of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.) The IRS can and does also get involved in this reporting cycle to identify untaxed income.

    The best course of action for poker players now receiving large cash-outs ($10,000 or more) of previously untaxed winnings would be to fully declare those cash-outs as income on their 2011 tax returns, or file amended returns for 2010 and 2009 etc (as far back as the winnings were accrued).

    Poker winnings are taxable income (just like any other kind of income.) You will sleep FAR better if you properly declare your winnings as income and pay the taxes on this income. Here is a link to the Bank Secrecy Act:

    http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/
  18. feedthemfish feedthemfish is offline

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    Apr 28th, 2011 (4/28/2011 7:09am) in reply to 13inches

    Don't see why the gov deserves any tax money from the individuals. Taxes in general are pretty much is a joke. Buy a new car you pay tax on it. sell that car....buyer pays taxes AGAIN. really? WTF did the gov do to assist in any this. wonder why the rich get richer?

    and preston looks like you'd be a small fish to fry. they probably wouldn't even bother with you.
  19. Dan Dan is offline Administrator

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    Apr 28th, 2011 (4/28/2011 11:49pm) in reply to feedthemfish

    From talking to Ann-Margaret Johnston, who does poker taxes for a living, it seems as if you should be reporting the amount that you're cashing out of stars/Tilt/UB/AP for on your 2011 taxes. In other words, the Feds will have a record of you getting a transfer because they're overseeing it, so your best bet is to report it.

    I'm sure they could go back and look for discrepancies in past years if they wanted to.
     
  20. The Knish The Knish is offline

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    Apr 29th, 2011 (4/29/2011 1:41am) in reply to Dan

    Without a doubt there will be tax consequeses IMO to people that hadn't been paying their taxes.

    From the approach taken so far the 1st parties they will go after will be the affilliates that get paid in cash through the sites.

    While many of the affiliates have paid their taxes and file corp returns etc such as I'm sure P5's and other large affiliates have there are a ton of affiliates that have been running websites that have been paying nothing.

    This is the part that is going to get ugly IMO.

    I would expect rakeback will be incorporated in the mix and of course they will target players but my guess would be the affilliates will be the 1st they go after for audits accross the board. Very easy to track.

    At least right now there is no statute of limitations that will apply so they will probably look to peel open the
  21. donkiman donkiman is offline

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    Apr 29th, 2011 (4/29/2011 12:17pm) in reply to feedthemfish

     
    Originally Posted by feedthemfish View Post

    Don't see why the gov deserves any tax money from the individuals. Taxes in general are pretty much is a joke. Buy a new car you pay tax on it. sell that car....buyer pays taxes AGAIN. really? WTF did the gov do to assist in any this. wonder why the rich get richer?

    and preston looks like you'd be a small fish to fry. they probably wouldn't even bother with you.

    An example that pertains to the topic....

    You and I both make $800 at our jobs. We pay our taxes and are left with $500. We decide to play heads up for $500 buyin one night. You beat me. Now you have to pay taxes on that $500 profit that was already taxed when I received it. Now your left with $350 profit. Sooo 800 taxed down to 350 in 2 transactions...
     
  22. feedthemfish feedthemfish is offline

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    Apr 29th, 2011 (4/29/2011 6:19pm) in reply to donkiman

     
    Originally Posted by donkiman View Post

    An example that pertains to the topic....

    You and I both make $800 at our jobs. We pay our taxes and are left with $500. We decide to play heads up for $500 buyin one night. You beat me. Now you have to pay taxes on that $500 profit that was already taxed when I received it. Now your left with $350 profit. Sooo 800 taxed down to 350 in 2 transactions...

    Thank you donkiman. perfect example.
  23. CPAEvil CPAEvil is offline

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    May 2nd, 2011 (5/2/2011 2:21pm) in reply to feedthemfish

    I personally think that they may look at the monies going out to people that are large sums. Now, there is nothing wrong with having a large amount online. The problem is that whatever year you won it, whether you took it offline or not, you should have paid taxes on it. The scary part is that you had the ability to take it offline and chose not to.

    I have had people ask me about what to do because they did not claim or pay taxes on the money and are afraid they had better do it in 2011. The worst thing is people complaining about that! Seriously, this is part of the reason that we are in this boat. No one wants to pay taxes but all these people against poker are feeling that people are hiding money and not paying tax on it..............could they have a valid argument??
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