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See Where You Rank in New Jersey

  1.  
    Originally Posted by supra1988t View Post

    In all reality the HS community overall is terrible with BRM. People just don't like being told they're wrong, even when they know it.

    With all the stories about big name pros being broke six months after a big 6 or 7 figure score, in addition to this story about JY being "flat broke" after an amazing year online... I'm starting to think that good BR management is more often than not inversely correlated to being a good player.
  2. A couple things really amaze me when i read these threads..

    1. How unprepared and short sighted players were, and by players i mean the lot of people who make a living or attempt to make a living at this game... Seeing the events of the last couple of years, and the ever so obvious pressure that the sites were under to workaround and bypass regulations with processors... How is it that so many people had such huge sums of money online.. with such a blatant disregard for the red signals leading up to BF

    2. How some of the most successful..(or whom appear to be successful) players who turn into backers, take on so much risk .. .almost unquantifiable risk, when employing a bunch of twenty something year olds they really don't know at all... on the basis email conversations and IMs. How do you not have legal contracts drafted, background checks done, monitoring procedures in place.. when your are essentially handing over your livelyhood in the form of thousands of dollars to these kids to gamble. I can see a bax and sheets running an operation, with the backgrounds they have, but any successful player turned backer is truly playing with fire... .and is really risking so much more than they know by investing in a gamble with a perceived edge... an edge by the way goes into the toilet anytime your stake loses focus, has outside influences, etc etc ... So many uncontrollable factors making backing the single worst investment anyone could ever make.Trusting 21 yr olds with 50k of your money is not a risk which should be taken lightly.. and its unreal how much risk is being taken with no fallback plan, no contracts, and nothing more than a aquaintance known for a year over skype and a couple of live tourneys.

    3. The assumption most young people on the forums make when a high volume, big buyin player has great stats for a year... Just because someone ran good for a year or 2, had great stats, etc... means next to nothing if you cant manage money. And its so obvious at this point that early success in poker doesn't equate at all to money and risk management.. and truthfully why should it.. most of these players haven't experienced enough and I fully expect 95% of them to go broke numerous times before they mature enough to manage money and risk.

    By no means does the above apply to all..

    It just astounds me how everyone expects a group of young kids to handle money and risk correctly... they wont..

    Stop posting IMs in public forums hoping shame makes a stakee come to his senses... and start acting like a business man who understands risk and managing money and people. There is no right or wrong here.. because the people involved are kids who have no idea how to run a business, and didnt protect their investment or time with legal contracts. These people are effectively WORKING FOR YOU. If you want to hire them.. start acting like someone who knows what that really means... Or don't get yourself into this situation.

    I dont know moorman beyond what people tell me about him... but with a number of horses in the race... you have to be more prepared than this... the amount of risk he has out there is not acceptable

    michael
     
  3.  
    Originally Posted by MeJahAndOmaha View Post

    With all the stories about big name pros being broke six months after a big 6 or 7 figure score, in addition to this story about JY being "flat broke" after an amazing year online... I'm starting to think that good BR management is more often than not inversely correlated to being a good player.

    I dunno his situation, but when your backed and paying taxes in the US, you prob receive 30 cents for every dollar you earn. Toss in trips to Vegas, a new car, etc its pretty easy to rip through money quicker then ppl would think
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  4. LOL

    JyMaster takes every spot ... doesn't he?

    Using BF as an excuse to get out of MU is just plain scummy. This is especially true when Moorman's other horses are in the EXACT position and are honoring their backing agreement. Backing for live tournaments and 10ks is contingent on having online action as well and Jordan didn't get back his accounts until recently. He could have got them back earlier... Calvin Anderson did... but he didn't. Therefore the backing arrangement should be suspended until his online accounts were to be reinstated. Thats what the rest of the horses did... what makes this guy so fucking special?

    I just think its funny when guys have success and get this overwhelming and unjustified sense of entitlement.
  5.  
    Originally Posted by z06fanatic View Post

    I dunno his situation, but when your backed and paying taxes in the US, you prob receive 30 cents for every dollar you earn. Toss in trips to Vegas, a new car, etc its pretty easy to rip through money quicker then ppl would think

    I think poker players are a lot like rappers and professional athletes in the way that the baller lifestyle is glorified and idolized.

    I'm not talking about JY, but people in general who come into a lot of money quickly and think they'll be on top of the world indefinately. Its the same phenomenon you see when you have MLB/NBA/NFL players who make 10's of millions for a few years and are broke and in debt 5 to 10 years later.
  6.  
    Originally Posted by ImaLuckSac View Post

    LOL

    JyMaster takes every spot ... doesn't he?

    Using BF as an excuse to get out of MU is just plain scummy. This is especially true when Moorman's other horses are in the EXACT position and are honoring their backing agreement. Backing for live tournaments and 10ks is contingent on having online action as well and Jordan didn't get back his accounts until recently. He could have got them back earlier... Calvin Anderson did... but he didn't. Therefore the backing arrangement should be suspended until his online accounts were to be reinstated. Thats what the rest of the horses did... what makes this guy so fucking special?

    I just think its funny when guys have success and get this overwhelming and unjustified sense of entitlement.

    Well put.
  7.  
    Originally Posted by ImaLuckSac View Post

    LOL

    JyMaster takes every spot ... doesn't he?

    Using BF as an excuse to get out of MU is just plain scummy. This is especially true when Moorman's other horses are in the EXACT position and are honoring their backing agreement. Backing for live tournaments and 10ks is contingent on having online action as well and Jordan didn't get back his accounts until recently. He could have got them back earlier... Calvin Anderson did... but he didn't. Therefore the backing arrangement should be suspended until his online accounts were to be reinstated. Thats what the rest of the horses did... what makes this guy so fucking special?

    I just think its funny when guys have success and get this overwhelming and unjustified sense of entitlement.

    So even if hes put in 80% (just making this number up) of his volume in online and then right before the WSOP (where the majority of his live action was going to come from) he can't play online so he loses his rights to the only live action he cares about? That don't seem right either.
  8.  
    Originally Posted by JLizard View Post

    So even if hes put in 80% (just making this number up) of his volume in online and then right before the WSOP (where the majority of his live action was going to come from) he can't play online so he loses his rights to the only live action he cares about? That don't seem right either.

    You are right. ImaLuckSac is right. Hell, a lot of people who have posted in this thread are "right" to an extent. Probably, why this should have never been brought public in the first place but we are all here because it was and that cannot be changed now so I'll move forward. The fact is that this will never get resolved. Everyone has there own opinion on the matter and there is good merit to each side's argument. Yes, it does somewhat appear that JY is angle-shooting out of 80K MU but we cannot know for sure. Yes, it does seem right that he should have the option to get out of 80K MU when he couldn't get backing for the biggest series of live events for the year which was a major incentive for him taking on the backing in the first place. Yes, Moorman sent out an email that provided JY and his other horses with the necessary information and time to find other means for this years WSOP and it does seem as if he intends for it to only be temporary. Yes, most if not all of Moorman's other horses came to a different conclusion that JY about the email but that doesn't mean we can exclude the fact that JY may have misinterpreted the email still. Yes, there should have been more communication between the parties involved. Yes, pokerjamers arbitrated the matter and came to the conclusion that JY has 0 MU. Yes, JY is not legally obligated to pay back Moorman. Yes, JY should probably feel morally obligated to pay him back or at least compromise on the MU. Yes, it seems that neither of them is willing to budge on the MU numbers. Yes, a compromise is probably the very best solution for all parties involved but as we can already see this is very unlikely to happen, especially after all that has transpired thus far regarding this matter.

    No, I cannot make up my mind on who is actually "right" regarding this matter.
    Edited By: Khaozmayhem Sep 9th, 2011 at 01:10 AM
  9. Were they really mates at all if they spent the entire series in vegas avoiding each other?

    edit : fml Its either troll p5s or watch spongebob squarepants.
    Edited By: JLizard Sep 9th, 2011 at 01:28 AM
  10. Do what's right JY. It might not be easy, but you will be happier in the long run. Compromise a little moorman and I'm sure it will be worth it(I'm sure you're also willing to)
  11.  
    Originally Posted by JLizard View Post

    Were they really mates at all if they spent the entire series in vegas avoiding each other?

    edit : fml Its either troll p5s or watch spongebob squarepants.

    Spongebob FTW obviously.
  12. I read this entire thread and the conversations between MoormanI and Jyamster11. I won't be commenting on any of it though.
     
  13. let spong bob out of this business imo
     2
  14. sponge bob or troll p5s wtf r u guys on about
  15.  
    Originally Posted by MeJahAndOmaha View Post

    I think poker players are a lot like rappers and professional athletes in the way that the baller lifestyle is glorified and idolized.

    I'm not talking about JY, but people in general who come into a lot of money quickly and think they'll be on top of the world indefinately. Its the same phenomenon you see when you have MLB/NBA/NFL players who make 10's of millions for a few years and are broke and in debt 5 to 10 years later.

    yeh well when you got 20 year olds making 2-300k a year its easy to see how they can blow through that when they think theyre printing money......I mean say your backed you make 300k one year - 150k to your backer, 50-60k to the government, 90k left. I mean to live a decent lifestyle (decent apartment, go out to eat on the weekend, parties) your talking atleast 25-30k. so 60k left in total assuming you dont go crazy with vacations, a car, etc - not as much as people think.......and very few people are going to be making this kind of money year in year out for the longrun.........never understood why guys are backed to play HSMTT when they could prob play MSMTTs on their own dime and make more money - gotta have the glory tho and the p5s rankings!
    2
  16. yawn
     
  17. 80k in MU and he thought he was dropped? i think chris is getting screwed hard here
     1
  18.  
    Originally Posted by kevmode View Post

    I read this entire thread and the conversations between MoormanI and Jyamster11. I won't be commenting on any of it though.

     
  19. ^^^ I did laugh at that, nh sir
     
  20. *shakes head* and here i thought regulation would get poker(main sites) back in USA, and now we have some of the top players fighting like children,adding fuel to all the negativity that's already out here. just plain dumb to post any of this on this site. WEAK SAUCE. Most of u have no idea where and how the haters get the info to spew the "evils" of online poker.. Thanks for this. SO to the starter of this thread and anyone who thinks this private matter should be aired in a public forum ----------------------kiddie table down the street. i respect all involved as players but cmon look at big picture and for some 80k aint a big picture
  21. I doubt people lobbying for or against Online poker are concerned with Moorman or Jymaster. These types of threads will continue to be posted, and were posted frequently enough before black friday. Sometimes people want to get a public opinion on a matter, other times they want to warn the community about a particular person. Either way, its not fuel to the fire against online regulation in the US, as disputes can happen in any type of business arrangement, especially ones that do not have firm written contracts.
  22.  
    Originally Posted by wackyJaxon View Post

    I doubt people lobbying for or against Online poker are concerned with Moorman or Jymaster. These types of threads will continue to be posted, and were posted frequently enough before black friday. Sometimes people want to get a public opinion on a matter, other times they want to warn the community about a particular person. Either way, its not fuel to the fire against online regulation in the US, as disputes can happen in any type of business arrangement, especially ones that do not have firm written contracts.

    it does look bad, doubt in any other business (except drugs etc) do people deal with similar funds without a contract, makes poker players look dumb 2bh
     1
  23. If we are protecting against people not acting smartly, that is what regulation is for.
  24. So lack of communication = dropped from backing deal?????? Sounds like an 80k ass rape

    Since most backing deals that have gone sour have involved known regs with big scores and the potential for huge 6 figure binks, how on Gods green earth is there no paper/written/signed contracts involved??????

    Reg w $---- "Meh, I just won the sunday give a fuck, Ill back the world now. oh, youve won a tourney, here have some money and now I back you. go win now and I hope you give me money back and since you play online a bunch you must be trustworthy."
    (This is what I hear when someone says they have horses)
     
  25. People have to start understanding that was not an arbitration. I.don't know what it was but people aren't usually making eggs and running back and forth to the computer during it. They were probably all multitabling during it. Jymaster has lost all respect
    Edited By: friskystrike Sep 9th, 2011 at 01:29 PM
  26.  
    Originally Posted by friskystrike View Post

    People have to start understanding that was not an arbitration. I.don't know what it was but people aren't usually making eggs and running back and forth to the computer during it. They were probably all multitabling during it. Jymaster has lost all respect

    If i could like this i would
  27. Am I missing something here? Every business law class I took said gambling contracts are not enforceable in the US. How would a written contract be helpful in this situation?


    also,

     
    Originally Posted by rmull View Post


    POTY hahahaha
    Edited By: StayCalm Sep 9th, 2011 at 02:37 PM
  28. No one in the poker world is motivated enough to write up a written contract, no matter how easy it is, verbals binding.
     
  29.  
    Originally Posted by StayCalm View Post

    Am I missing something here? Every business law class I took said gambling contracts are not enforceable in the US. How would a written contract be helpful in this situation?

    It wouldn't be. Before taking on a horse I talked to a handful of backers and they all pretty much agreed that written contracts are pretty much worthless. Just be as thorough as possible on the verbal agreement.
  30. obv a written contract would enforce the exact ramifications of the actual agreement
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