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  1. I've gone into the hole approx 3k at a 80/20 no MU live cash stake (1/2nl, 1/3nl, and 2/5nl). My backer wants me to put up 20% now on for the the same deal? What should I do? Being in the hole sucks.
    Edited By: IAMBL_E Jan 31st, 2012 at 11:07 PM
  2. Ok so I have found a horse that I'm wishing to stake this will be my first staking experince so I'm wet behind the ears, the guy seems to have some solid result pre BF and I'm consider staking him on the merge network anything upto $15 F/O and $3R what I need to know are a few points I will list them below and if people could give me examples of how its done or what the norm is id be grateful:

    Funding the account: Ok so he has shown me a rough schedule that he would like to play, do I ship him 1 day of buy ins for the schedule or a weeks worth of funds for the record his daily limit is something around the $155 mark

    Winnings and payment of winnings: Ok so assuming he hits the ground running not very likely but hey look on the brightside right, what is the procedre does the account get swept/cleared daily and just enough left in for his daily grind and I pay him a total of profits less stake and any make up at the end of the month, or do we just leave the money in the building up obv this increse the risk of being rolled I guess

    Limits and shots: Ok so as stated, im taking his MTT action on merge up to the $15 level, which one assumes would mean he can play anything above $15 on his own dime, this worries me because how do I know he aint used my $15 and added a $5 to it and binked a $22 mtt and not given me the funds because he 'says' he played that MTT on his own dime and not part of the stake can I just limit him to playing the agreed stakes and nothing higher because surely there no way to tell if its on my dime or his if he plays higher

    Make up: playing under make up, what if after a period of months, years this guy just aint what we thought he would be, we moved him down levels but cant seem to win, not likely as he has over $500k in tracked scores but what if he in make up and I'm wanting to end the agreement what happens regarding make up and money owed

    Thats it for now, we have spoke on skype I have obv logged all chats, Im thinking of making some form of agreement but doubt there legal anyway, tbh he seems a honest enough guy but well he would if he wanted to scam then turn on me if he was the sort to roll thats the risk we take i guess. If you could reply in the thread i'd be greateful, like i said Im a noob at this so would like some advise on whats the norm.
  3.  
    Originally Posted by Bradqwer

    Funding the account: Ok so he has shown me a rough schedule that he would like to play, do I ship him 1 day of buy ins for the schedule or a weeks worth of funds for the record his daily limit is something around the $155 mark

    Ship him what you think you can trust him for, daily or weekly. P2P transfer into his account from yours. Since you have concerns about whether he will be playing your or his funds, have him show you his account balances: Screenshot or with Skype (Teamviewer) share screens with his Merge account open. You can do this to audit monthly status. If he has his username blocked on OPR, have him screenshot his tournaments from PokerTracker or HoldemManager weekly or daily.

     
    Originally Posted by Bradqwer

    Winnings and payment of winnings: Ok so assuming he hits the ground running not very likely but hey look on the brightside right, what is the procedre does the account get swept/cleared daily and just enough left in for his daily grind and I pay him a total of profits less stake and any make up at the end of the month, or do we just leave the money in the building up obv this increse the risk of being rolled I guess

    This is something you need to discuss & understand before you finalize your staking agreement. Set parameters before you begin (specially since this your first staking with somewhat unknown player).

    Do you want to get paid weekly on profits, monthly, or do you have a set time frame to close the staking agreement. Each time you settle-up & get paid, it's like starting over on a new stake.

     
    Originally Posted by Bradqwer

    Make up: playing under make up, what if after a period of months, years this guy just aint what we thought he would be, we moved him down levels but cant seem to win, not likely as he has over $500k in tracked scores but what if he in make up and I'm wanting to end the agreement what happens regarding make up and money owed

    If you go along and stake him & he never seems to bink any winnings, you may end the arrangement at some point: month, 2 months, whatever. If he's in make-up when the agreement ends, you will have to accept it as a lost. That part of the risk: some times you win & some times you lose. When you end the stake in MU, it's over & you notify him and quit sending him funds.

    I would also suggest that you set up a google spreadsheet to track all payments to and from you & your player.

    When I had a stable of players b4 BF, I kept spreadsheets and folders on all 32 players that worked for me.
    One sheet for payments & another one for tracking their tournaments played, buy-ins, and winnings. I would total out and settle stakes at some agreed upon time or number of games/tournaments played & record payments when received. Start a new stake - if the player wanted & agreed to new terms.
  4. cheers for the reply bluedog, any others wanna chime in? also we know varience can be a bitch what is a good time scale to run a stake for in mtts guess its a question thats cant really be answeared due to it being player dependent but still other opinions would be good cheers
  5.  
    Originally Posted by bradqwer View Post

    Funding the account: Ok so he has shown me a rough schedule that he would like to play, do I ship him 1 day of buy ins for the schedule or a weeks worth of funds for the record his daily limit is something around the $155 mark

    Up to you and based on trust. As the agreement goes forward and your level of trust builds, it probably can increase. I like to make sure everyone has at least 2 days of buyins that way if I can't provide a reload, they don't have to skip a session.

     
    Originally Posted by bradqwer View Post

    Winnings and payment of winnings: Ok so assuming he hits the ground running not very likely but hey look on the brightside right, what is the procedre does the account get swept/cleared daily and just enough left in for his daily grind and I pay him a total of profits less stake and any make up at the end of the month, or do we just leave the money in the building up obv this increse the risk of being rolled I guess

    Usually sweep once there's profit. Or if he was in, for example, ~6-7 days of MU, have him send back 2-3 days and keep 3-4 to play with. It's based on what you're comfortable with. I prefer to keep my money in my account in case something happens on Merge.

     
    Originally Posted by bradqwer View Post

    Limits and shots: Ok so as stated, im taking his MTT action on merge up to the $15 level, which one assumes would mean he can play anything above $15 on his own dime, this worries me because how do I know he aint used my $15 and added a $5 to it and binked a $22 mtt and not given me the funds because he 'says' he played that MTT on his own dime and not part of the stake can I just limit him to playing the agreed stakes and nothing higher because surely there no way to tell if its on my dime or his if he plays higher

    Trust is a big part of this. I don't think many, if any, of the players I back keep their own money in the account. A lot of deals include a requirement that the horse only plays as part of the stake and nothing else. It's standard and if you don't trust the horse, it's a fine requirement to include.

     
    Originally Posted by bradqwer View Post

    Make up: playing under make up, what if after a period of months, years this guy just aint what we thought he would be, we moved him down levels but cant seem to win, not likely as he has over $500k in tracked scores but what if he in make up and I'm wanting to end the agreement what happens regarding make up and money owed

    If you decide you don't want to/can't support a horse any longer, the deal is finished and you lose your investment.

     
    Originally Posted by bradqwer View Post

    cheers for the reply bluedog, any others wanna chime in? also we know varience can be a bitch what is a good time scale to run a stake for in mtts guess its a question thats cant really be answeared due to it being player dependent but still other opinions would be good cheers

    My standard deal is horse can quit at any point when there's no makeup and I can drop the horse whenever I want. Some deals have minimum time requirements. Personally, I don't want to back a horse that doesn't want to play for me and I don't want to back someone just because we have a min time requirement.
  6. I apologize if this is not a proper post for this forum but I have a question for all you stakers (or stakees). I have a friend that wants to stake me to play online and we are trying to work out what arrangements. I realize it is just up to us and there is no REAL right way to do it. But I was wondering if anyone could inform me about ways to split the money that are fair, work, and get him a return on his money in a timely fashion while giving myself a fair chance to play long enough to get a profit that is worth anything! What are normal terms for something like this? I am thinking he will be giving me $1000 to grind the micro MTT's for awhile to see if I can cut it. Would I pay him returns as I go, end of each month, end of the year? Also, what is common to split? 70/30 (him/me)? I want to be fair to both of us!
    Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply to this!
  7. This may be a stupid question but anyway here goes...

    Say, for example, a staker gives me a one time deal, One session - $100 worth of MTTs, 50/50+MU.....

    I whiff the lot, no returns I'm now $100 in mu with this staker.

    It was a one night agreement so our agreement is over. Do I only need to worry about this MU if I play for this particular staker again? Am I now free to accept a stake from another backer?

    Or, do I need permission from said staker to play for someone else?

    Just a little confused on how this things work! Would be grateful is someone could clarify this hypothetical scenario for me.

    Cheers
  8. If its a 1 time deal i dont know how it can involve makeup. With no makeup id of assumed he would make a deal for less than 50% your way and losses r his. If the deal continues then makeup continues but if hes not going to back u any further ur not obligated to be his horse solely, And im assuming he doesnt expect you to pay him back?

    This probably should of been discussed with him in more detail prior, And infact sounds like you need to talk to him first.
     2
  9. yea, Im new to staking and think the penny has dropped now. Btw this was pure hypothetical and Im not in this situation with anyone right now.

    Im assuming when on somewhere like ptp where people offer one time plans and advertise 60/40 w/ makeup its essentially only meaning stakeback?...and it only becomes makeup if plan runs again or I play for this staker again.

    Thanks anyway Ahurazor, hopefully getting my head round things now :)
  10. A buddy and I (the horses) are being staked by multiple stakers for live play in Vegas this June for torment play. If we receive tournament winnings in excess of five thousand and we are required to pay taxes, is there a way to distribute the tax responsibly throughout the backers? Or is there a better way to handle taxes?
  11. Scenario:

    Eight months ago I started being backed by a good friend and cash grinder. Over the first 4 months I was able to make 34k in total. Cashing out about 8k a month and splitting the money 50/50. As our agreement stated that I could cash out at the end of each month. Now for the past 4 months I have been loosing. I've gone about 8k into make up and its been pretty frustrating. I told him that I was possibly thinking about quitting poker and moving on to getting a real job. He then told me that if I did this I would have to pay back some or all of the make up. For now I have chosen to continue to play. But I was wondering what the fair ruling on this would be. What if I continue to play for another 6 months and loose more money. At some point I will be broke. What then? Please help with any info or insite that you can. He is a good friend and I want to take the fare route. I'm not trying to screw him I'm just not sure how this all works. I realize this all should have been set in stone to start with but I would like to address this issue now rather then down the road.

    Thank you for your time.
  12. Normally If the horse wants to leave the deal he would have to pay back all make up, if the backer drops the horse he would absorb all losses.

    Im presuming the length of the deal wasn't discuss and MU wasn't discussed in full before you started playing.
  13. If nothing was discussed before the deal was started, you're allowed to quit at any time without penalty/repayment. The "standard" staking terms usually allow a horse to quit while in makeup without having to buy out makeup.

    However, if you do that, you're quitting poker for good and can't play online again, without giving the backer the right of first refusal for any future action.

    In addition, since he's a friend, you may want to work out an arrangement and buy out some of your makeup so that the end of this deal doesn't ruin your friendship.
  14. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I forgot to mention that we did have an original agreement of six months and that time has passed.

    I agree hat if i was going to continue to play poker on my own or search for another backer without first repaying him then I would be in the wrong. In my understand that if your doing this your new and old backers must come to an agreement first and then you start paying make up to your new backer. But in this case I feel that if your quitting then this is the risk that a backer takes anytime they take on a horse.

    Thanks
  15. Didn't really know what to title this but I thought you guys might be able to help:

    Basically I have some friends and family who are interested in investing in my tournement poker carrer.

    My question is how do I go about doing this, Should I draw up a business plan telling them which tournements I will play in and what returns they can expect (if any) What's the best way to work these things out? do i just go on stats from sites like opr? Has anyone had experiance of doing this? Is there anywhere online which would give me a good template for doing such a business plan?

    I would really apprieciate any advice/help (or sponsership). Thanks in advance.
     1
  16. Don't do it. Friends and family who don't play poker almost never understand the swings and it can put a big wedge in your relationship with them.
     
  17.  
    Originally Posted by nextuniverse View Post

    Don't do it. Friends and family who don't play poker almost never understand the swings and it can put a big wedge in your relationship with them.

    I have seriously considered this. I would only be recieving investment from people who understand the poker world and apprieciate the idea of varience, but although this is the case I still need to come up with some numbers so as to explain to them what it is I need, what it is i'm trying/hoping to achieve and what they will gain from my time spent on my computer.
     1
  18. this is the section I was wanting, thanks for putting my posts in the rigt place mr. mod!
     1
  19. How much to I need to be askig for from my backer/s to be playing anything up to the sunday $530? So looking at an average buy in of around $250 probably. At the moment I play about 60 tournies a week. I have an ROI of about 40% over a large 6 year MTT sample. I think my average buy in at the moment is about $100 and I kind of live off my bank roll (can't get any of these figures exactly at the moment as i have only just now opted in for the detailed stars tracking on opr).
    My bank roll management has been pretty much no existant I just spent what i want to when I wanted to, living the high life when times are good and tighten my belt when running bad, but as I now have a 3 month old baby I get the feeling life needs to be taken a bit more seriously!
    If I had more than one backer i guess they all need to be singing off the same hymn sheet, or is it better to have seperate contacts with each of them?
    Any advice here is seriously welcome.
     1
  20. HEY P5 COMMUNITY

    I AM INTERESTED IN STARTING TO STAKE PLAYERS AS I CAN NOT REALLY PLAY ANYMORE MYSELF AS BAD AS I WANT TO

    I AM POSTING THIS THREAD ASKING FOR ANY AND ALL VALUABLE INFORMATION CURRENT LONG TIME STAKERS CAN PROVIDE ME AS I AM BRAND NEW TO IT

    I WANTED TO START WITH A COUPLE CLOSE,LONG TIME ONLINE FRIENDS THAT I HAVE

    JUST WANT TO GET AN IDEA OF HOW TO START ON THE RIGHT FOOT

    AS I SAID ANY AND ALL INFORMATION/TIPS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

    I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE THAT GIVE ME SOME INPUT AND BEST OF LUCK TO ALL BOTH ON AND OFF THE FELT

    T.G.
    Edited By: wackyJaxon Jul 7th, 2012 at 08:43 PM
  21. Hey guys just wanted to gather opinions on a situation iv had. I recently decided to back a friend for a 2 week period, starting Sunday and lasting throughout the MicroMillions. In the first couple of days of the stake he hit a score for 1k which increased his account to 600 above the original stake. He then asks wonders how the 600 is gona be split. It was my expectation that standard would be to wait til the end of the agreed upon stake to split any profits accumulated. This was because I could still potentially end up down on the stake while my friend is up 300 over that time. Can someone let me know the standard in a situation like this
     
  22. Typically you agree to this ahead of time. However, it is most common that if the stake is for a small fixed period (such as through the MM), you would not split until the series was over. I feel your stance here is correct since as you said, the deal is done in a few weeks. You can also just give him the option to split now, but then not provide backing for the MM, but this is up to you, etc.

    For our longer term horses, we let them chop whenever they want when they are ahead of make-up, however, this is not necessarily the case with all stables. Many stables only let you chop weekly or monthly or some other fixed period. If I was staking someone with the intention it was a month or less, I would not allow early chops. However, I would make it clear ahead of time this was the case.
  23.  
    Originally Posted by wackyJaxon View Post

    Typically you agree to this ahead of time. However, it is most common that if the stake is for a small fixed period (such as through the MM), you would not split until the series was over. I feel your stance here is correct since as you said, the deal is done in a few weeks. You can also just give him the option to split now, but then not provide backing for the MM, but this is up to you, etc.

    For our longer term horses, we let them chop whenever they want when they are ahead of make-up, however, this is not necessarily the case with all stables. Many stables only let you chop weekly or monthly or some other fixed period. If I was staking someone with the intention it was a month or less, I would not allow early chops. However, I would make it clear ahead of time this was the case.

    Thanks for clearing that up Wacky
     
  24. OK. Something I've wondered for a while.

    I see threads about staking and if you play online then you get paid into the games blah blah...
    You pay for your own electric and already have a computer I assume...

    But what if you're staked for live games? Surely you have travel and hotel costs? Does your backer pay for those? Are they considered part of the buy in?

    I know there will probably be different types of agreement but I was wondering what was normal.

    Ty for any sensible answers. :)
  25. generally no, your travel and expenses are not paid for by the backer.

    there are some deals where travel expenses are included...these expenses would always be added to the 'makeup' that a player must recover before making any profit. i.e. if you travel to play in a $5k touranment, and travel and hotel cost $1500 and is included in your deal, then you would need to cash for >$6500 before seeing your cut of the profits


    like i said tho, these deals are very rare, and most deals do not include any expenses or anything
     21
    2

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  26. Ty Gags.

    Probs a stupid question but are there actually that many people who are staked live then? Seems to me it's not something many people could do even if they had the skill?
  27. thinking about making a stakee profile for mtts $20 and below this thread has really helped clear up some things. thanks guys
     
  28. i live in massachusetts and would like to know what site should i join for someone to look at my stats and decide if i was a good investment for staking....
  29. Sharkscope or OPR or Pokerprolabs
     
  30. So is it really possible to get staked without any good results? I busted my BR but I really want to play and I feel that I can win if getting staked. Is there any site that offers staking for players with no good results but fundamental understanding of the game? Or I have to grind the freerolls again lol

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