Hi guys! Good news, please read this thread, it has a happy ending http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ft-acc-338205/

 

Originally Posted by Nofx Fan

Hi Nat,

I'll PM you an explanation of how it works and you can decide if you want to add it or not. I will say for people reading this that a bank would not be involved at all with either a poker site or poker money.

Sorry, I didn't get around to this yet. Basically it is just trading a persons bank funds [bank names deleted] for online funds and is a way to cash out when you need money fast and can't worry about it being tied up with a sites 3rd party processor. It's also a great way to deposit. I use both ways.

Rao - we are volunteers, not abusing power, just following the rules we are asked to follow.. I understand what you are saying, but its policy, if the mods didn't do it the admins who have more responsibilities to the site would have to do it..

The names thing is there for a few reasons...

1) Make sure that people send to the right account
2) Make sure that people publicly state their screennames when requesting trades. The alternative would be to require screennames in your profile.
3) Make sure that people read the rules and suggested guidelines for avoiding scamming.

While it might not be well-known, P5ers have been scammed for well north of $5k in that thread so far. Every single time (that I know about) it was because the person didn't read the OP. The rules are there to protect the users, not annoy them. No one has to use the thread.

While I understand that you don't necessarily disagree with the rules (just the consequence for breaking them), the very first line in the OP states that 24 hour automatic bans are in effect for not following the rules. If people aren't reading the OP, they shouldn't be making their trade because they have a decent chance of being scammed. A 24 hour ban from posting is not a big deal.

Also, the system is going to be changing on the site to site thread pretty soon which will make this particular discussion a moot point. But it isn't going to change before then.

Lastly, I didn't ban apestyles for 24 hours because I wasn't sure of the technical issues involved in banning a mod. I've temp banned lots of high profile players in that thread...

I disagree, most poker players would respond to a warning by editing their post and not reading the rules. But if they're given 24 hours off, they are more likely to say "oh I should read the rules before I post in this thread again".

Like I said, it's really irrelevant. We're going to be making the thread more strict and automatically enforced. People won't even be able to make a post if they aren't following the rules so it will be a moot point.

It hasn't stopped people from posting. We just have a difference of a opinion.

Also, I should mention that I don't doubt that some people are offended by it or upset by it. Unfortunately that is a negative side effect of the policy.

 

Originally Posted by Nofx Fan

Hi guys,

Just wanted to say good job so far and keep it up! I do want to make a post about the dangers of thinking that because you are receiving funds first, that you are safe.

One thing I have noticed is people are doing trades they may not normally do, or not worrying about "putting in the research" and overall just more comfortable when they have someone send first. Receiving funds first protects against a scammer that is trying to set up a trade where he knows he will not honor his side of it and send. This is how most scams used to be.

I just want to make you guys aware of the newer trend(s). Because people have been more careful when choosing a partner and the various policing that goes on, scamming is not as profitable as it once was. Because of that scammers have had to adapt and look for new ways.

One of the most successful newer ways they are scamming is by depositing fraudulent funds and then offering to sent it first. Sounds safe on the surface, but here's the problem. When a scammer has deposited via a credit card, they later request a "charge back" so the site will be out money. They also deposit using fake, stolen, or fraudulent cards. Another way is echeck, most major sites will give the player the funds deposited via echeck before they have been collected by their processor.

The problem this creates is, it basically means nothing to receive first anymore. If you've been transferred fraudulent funds, in most cases the site will confiscate those funds and you will be left holding the bag. pokerstars specifically is the most "known" for adhering to this policy. This is why you must do the required research on a trader, if it's not someone you know very well. Try and trade with only people you know, or trust, but if that's not possible, 1. Google their name(s) use PTR, use sharkScope, use OPR. What you are trying to look for here is frequency of play, the stakes, and history. This will give you a good idea if 1. Someone should have the funds he is trading 2. Weather he's trading an amount that would be within his playing history (IE: don't trade 2k with someone that only plays $1 sng's or .1c/.2c cash game) Read the OP of the trading thread for more tips on how to search a player and various other safe guards.

Another latest angle is the scammer either claiming to be someone else, usually a trusted reg, or prolific player. There's a couple things they are doing here: one being they will claim their name is John Smith on FTP, but that is only a smoke screen because they will not be trading from that account. The other, trickier way they are going about gaining trust is by claiming they are John Smith on FTP, and then creating a PS account with the same screen name. Many people have different names for different sites, so don't just assume John Smith on FTP is also John Smith on PS. They will also try and copy reg's name but add an "l" instead of an "I" or add a space, etc.

Again, the best way to protect your self from that is by researching all account you are trading with, including the one you are receiving from and the one you are sending to. This is why it's of up most importance that screen names are posted with every single post in the thread, and why Nat and other forums MODS and admins are very strict about it.

Cliffs: 1. Receiving funds "first" means nothing and does not protect you from being scammed.
2. Research all names involved in your trade and make sure they are accurate, legit, and are the names belonging to the person you've chosen to trade with.

gl all

This is an excellent addition to the thread here. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge about this here, I think it'll go a long way towards helping people protect themselves

A+ contribution Nofx. Thank you for taking the time to share this with the community. As Adam said, this will go a long way towards helping our members protect themselves.

Wow, I feel the love at P5's...Thanks guys!

 

Originally Posted by N 82 50 24

I put your names in your profile.

Obv anyone looking to trade with this guy should verify it's him first (ie, ask him to sit with the money) given that he just signed up.

Also, you can ask him to sit with 1 cent on stars to prove that it's him over there as well. If he's bust, send him the 1 cent.

 

Originally Posted by kcd0g

fwiw you cant sit down with one cent, but good lookin out

 

Originally Posted by N 82 50 24

Good point, I guess you can send the min ($1 or whatever) or just have him ship back the 1 cent immed (since most wouldn't immed ship back).

EDIT: or just play money, whatever

I don't play at Stars so I'm not sure but, perhaps they can use observer chat with one cent? I know that's how it works on FTP

Hi guys, I haven't had a lot of time to be on forums lately but skimming the transfer thread here just now I noticed cornopolous has a "do not trade" under title. I had just been talking with him on 2p2 about a possible trade. I'd appreciate if someone could PM me (or post if appropriate) why he has the under title because he's all over the other forum requesting trades and I'd like to point out the problem to a MOD there if possible, but don't have a lot of time to research the issue myself.

Thanks for any help.

Hi guys, just wanted to note how great a job CAKE's security has been doing regarding scamming. If you happen to be the victim of transfer fraud, make sure you contact Cake's security asap and give them as many details as you can. They have been the most proactive site as far as recovering lost monies and investigating fraud.

Here's a couple posts from different situations showing some emails from Cake's security. Both relevant examples are towards the bottom of the posts.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...4&postcount=75

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=658

The effort they have been showing is unprecedented in online poker to this point and they deserve kudo's. Most of the sites have simply noted that it is the players responsibility to know who they are transferring with and have laid all responsibility on the player and have not been willing to intervene in most cases. Cake HAS been willing to help, so while it's always better to be as safe as you can and not let yourself get scammed, it's definitely worth noting that Cake' security may be able to help you if you are scammed.

Good job Cake!

Mainly because it's easier than writing complicated rules for people to follow.

Kinda like how they ban all electronic devices on airplanes when you're taking off ... obviously they know a Kindle isn't going to cause a problem but it's easier than listing off tons of things you can and can't use.

More than one reason but they include things like the obv money laundering nature of the transaction along with the potential physical dangers involved.

 

Originally Posted by nimbus

I've had experience with hundreds of trades on different forums over many years.

I've read through the comments in this thread (but maybe not all of them)

General thoughts:

- There is a lot of good information on 2+2 for conducting safe trades in the first post of the trading thread. New traders definitely should read it to avoid getting scammed.

- Sit with your trading partner at an empty table on the trading site to verify his identity. Make sure you are sitting out as to not post any blinds. A micro stakes table will work fine. Also make sure he shows you he has the funds to conduct the trade. Most scammers do not have any funds on the site. They just create accounts and hope that they can get someone to send to them.

- When trading with someone new, send the first transfer as an increment. There is no need to send $2k (or more) all at once. I've had people send me $5k increments and increments as small as $5 . Honest traders have no issues in making people comfortable.

- As Nofx Fan says, do research on the people that you are trading with. The following sites are free and can provide information on when poker accounts were created and the person's level of play.

http://www.pokertableratings.com
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com
http://www.sharkscope.com/

- If you get scammed, contact security@fulltiltpoker.com or security@pokerstars.com or the security department at the respective site. These people are much more responsive than their counterparts at the general support side. I know of at least a dozen cases where people have gotten their money back through the security personnel. This really is dependent on the situation.

- Don't underestimate the scammers, a few of them have been at this for many years.

- I know details on how some of these scams work but don't want to post the information to the general public. If you are a mod feel free to pm me with questions.

Good post, in general I am the mod that looks after most of the trading going on with help from Wantagolf and one or two others. If you see any potential scammers trading, feel free to PM me so I can research them as well.

Thank you for the helpful info to our honest traders.

Is it possible for a regular member to edit their posts in that thread? If so, for how long?