Sounds like not wearing underwear is more freedom than living in the USA..

I was having my best year leading up to BF, then got stuck with 90% of my roll on ftp and nothing to work with offline. Was shell shocked initially and didnt wanna do anything poker related. Went back to work as a plumber which pays well but is hard work and can be gross. I really enjoyed the summer though, I was much more active than I was pre BF. Played a lot of basketball over the summer, surfed and got in the best shape of my life. I spent a lot of time with friends, got a new dog and generally enjoyed life. Also got onto the show American Ninja Warrior but they didnt air my clip on TV. Although the BF thing and having a ton stuck on FTP did kind of haunt the summer. I also went back to city college for 2 entrepreneur classes and realized I really dont like school.

In general life has been better since BF but I miss the money and its hard going back to a "real" job. The one part I like a lot about not grinding poker fulltime is that I dont have to sit inside for 8-12 hours a day. So I dont really have much of a plan right now, I have been playing a tiny bit on some of the accessible sites, without much success yet.

Upon reading this thread I was inspired to share my story, however it turned quite lengthy. If you have any interest in HIGH LEVEL BASKETBALL, 5 & 6 FIGURE SWINGS, SEX, DRUGS, OR LIFE IN GENERAL, feel free to read the story I've never told until now. It was too long to post here so I posted it on 2+2. Here is the link:

the link changed due to 2+2. Its this now:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/63.../#post31343503

Since everyone is telling cool stories, I'll share mine.

I'm probably the only person who left a good job to play poker after Black Friday. I just looked at my W2 from last year and I made about $44k at a dental school, managing inventory, doing repairs/IT work and just being the guy people went to when they had problems. I got the job through my mother who works at the school. Prior to this job I was working in retail for $8.50/hr after working for my dad's cabinet sales/distribution company which got hit hard by the recession. Before that I dropped out of college at 18 to start a retail business which failed due to my inability to manage risk, but that's another story. I went from a horrible job to this cool new job where I'm surrounded by 18-28 year old girls (I have no game but I managed to get some during my tenure there!), everyone makes me feel important, I'm staying busy, etc. and all was good for a while. Unfortunately my boss was the type of the person who made everyone miserable. She came in late, left early, took extra days off, dealt out work to others that she should be doing, and her attitude had everyone intimidated and edgy. She also lied to her employees and attempted to steal about $15k worth of equipment from one of our suppliers.

Because my workload was so heavy I couldn't take more than a couple of days off at a time, and when I did take those vacation days my mind was always on work, wondering what messes I'd have to clean up when I returned. The students were progressing through the program and more cohorts of students were starting, and I had the responsibility of keeping the supplies stocked and managing the budget without any inventory tracking or accounting software. My coworkers were working just as hard, if not harder than I was and they also couldn't take time off. Tension in the office began to mount, and the drama never seemed to end. I ended up getting involved with one of the students and when things went south with her that pretty much killed my enthusiasm for the job.

Poker was going pretty well. Despite low volume I was going deep on a regular basis, final tabled a some good tournaments, and came really close to some real money. I was in over $30k makeup due to poor game selection, playing too many tables, and just not putting forth the effort, but then I hit a bit of a stride and really felt I'd get out soon if I kept at it. In January of 2011 I decided I was going to leave my job at the end of the year and go back to school while playing poker to support myself. This is my one obligatory whine sentence; I got 12th in the 105 super turbo during multi-entry week, KK<55 of sctrojans with about 50k for first, then that Sunday I got 10th in the Brawl where first was $388k and 14th in the early $162 where first was $132k, and then two weeks later Black Friday happened. My makeup was the lowest it had been in nearly a year, and had it not been for stupid live poker I would have been out! I went into a bit of a funk after BF. With poker and the girl gone and my job being how it was I basically woke up in time to shower and shave, got breakfast at McDonalds, worked, then came home where I'd get really stoned and watch TV until I went to bed. I did discover a new hobby in downhill skateboarding but it was so hot in Arizona that I'd only be able to skate at night, and I couldn't stay out too late because I had to be up at 6:00 the next morning. I managed to get away from work for one WSOP where I made a decent run, got to experience EDC and even tried DMT (trip report available upon request). I came home and knew I had to change something in my life, and soon. Towards the end of August I decided I was going to continue with my plan of quitting my job and playing poker, so I started selling my possessions and preparing for Mexico.

I left in early January. Prior to coming here I'd never left the USA before and despite living in Arizona where there is a healthy latino community I speak little to no Spanish. Cabo San Lucas can be expensive and surprisingly boring but it's a good change of pace. Poker has been fair to middling; my volume suffered due to MoneyBookers and pokerstars giving my all kinds of trouble making it difficult to move funds around, and I've had a bunch of close calls and final tables where I bust in stupid fashion and don't get the results I'm after. But I run hotter than the sun at 180s so the makeup-o-meter is staying fairly low. Despite having some decent results over the last couple weeks I've been tilty/over it especially after going deep in something big and coming up short. Tournament poker can be a mindfuck, and the effects are compounded by a lackluster work/life balance. Down here everyone I know is a poker player, the complex where I live is 55 units and probably 20% of them are occupied by poker players and I just never seem to get away from the game.

Despite the downsides and uncertainty, I'm happy I took a shot. Sometimes I ask myself if I made a good choice by coming here, and I think I did. I wake up in the morning and make myself a good/healthy breakfast before my session, some days after a walk around the marina. I get to cook lunch and dinner for myself too, and I don't mean sandwiches and Hot Pockets - I'm talking steak, bacon, man kinda food! I run the treadmill or lift weights at the gym daily. If I want to work early in the morning, I can do that. If I want to work a night session, I can do it. What if I want to work 16 hours a day, or no days at all? What if I want an easy day of volume grinding 180s, or picking out the 6-10 toughest tournaments I think I'm +EV in and just focusing hard on the action? Never in my life have I been able to do those things. Having time and flexibility to do things on your terms will do great things for your overall health and happiness, and I think it's something Americans either never experience or just take for granted. Being 23 years old and a malcontent who has no idea what he wants to do with his life is difficult, but this move has been a catalyst for change and personal growth and hopefully this will get me one step closer to finding my niche in life, whatever it may be.

I'm going home later this month for a couple of weeks because I'm kind of homesick; I'm a pussy and have never been away from friends and family this long. While I'm there I'm going to see an advisor at the community college by my house to see what steps I have to take to get back into school full time, and then I'm probably going to go somewhere else for a few more months of grinding. If it doesn't work out I'll go back to school and work for my grandparents' roofing business handling the accounting and streamlining their supply chain system. My dads business is doing pretty well too, so I've got some more work there if I need it. I also have a lot of experience and contacts in dentistry so there are probably a few opportunities available to me there as well, so if this poker thing doesn't work out I have a few hedges against busto.

I'm sure there are people who hear about what I did and think I'm a big idiot, but money isn't everything. Waking up in the morning and saying "God damn, I DON'T want to go to work today" five days a week, thinking about my job even when I'm not supposed to think about my job, and being depressed isn't worth $45k and some health benefits to me. Without a degree I had no advancement opportunities and I didn't receive a raise during my tenure so I'm not giving up too much as it is.

 

Originally Posted by Adam

Good post by poker scrub. I need to chime in a little on this. I think something that a lot of people in their 20's don't realize (I know I didn't) is that "what I want out of life" changes quite a bit for most of us when we start to get a little older. I was 26 and single when I moved down to Costa Rica and couldn't imagine anything different than a life where I could go out till whatever hour any night, make my own schedule all the time, not have anyone else I had to worry about, etc, etc. In the last 5 years my priorities have changed a lot. I've grown to care less about some of the things I did before. I go to bed at a pretty normal hour now - 11-12 every night. And I get up around 7 or 8 most mornings, which is a far cry from a few years ago when I had to set an alarm to get up in time for weekly noon meetings. I still value personal freedom and especially scheduling freedom, but I'm a lot more content with a fairly structured life and being beholden to a family than I once was. Things change, everyone grows up - or at least most of us do. I didn't make these changes out of necessity - they happened naturally and gradually without me even really thinking about it.

Now I'm not saying everyone will head in this direction, and I know it's extremely depressing for anyone who's 22 and rolling in money to hear about being 31 like me and living in the suburbs and having kids and playing in tennis leagues and going out with your wife for frozen yogurt or whatever. I wasn't ready for this life 5 years ago, but it's comfortable now and it's really a relief. I think the key to everything is, as you said, not being a debbie downer and trying to see that glass half full. Things change. Your income may fall for a while at certain times in your life. Sometimes you have to take a step backward before you can take two steps forward. Cliches, etc. But it's all true.

You probably won't be a grinder when you're 50. There are a number of them, but not nearly as many as the 22 year old variety. So at what point does it end and do you start pursuing something else? I'm sure plenty of you dream of making enough in your 20's to last you for life and then just kind of spending your time as you wish - or hopefully in some cases working charitably. But reality is that almost no one really ever gets to a point where they're satisfied with what they have. The more money you make, the smaller it all looks and the more you notice the people who have even more than you do. A life where you've reached 30 and no longer have any goals to meet would be pretty awful.

I think it's cool that a lot of people have tried playing poker in a new place after BF - obviously Poker Refugees has facilitated a lot of that, and I feel really good about what it has done. But I hope that what people are getting out of it is a new outlook on life - getting to see a new place, maybe learn a new language, meet different people....all while earning a living. If you're in your 20's and don't have a family and are just doing this to avoid having to make a longer term decision about what to do with your life, it may be best to take a second look at things.

Probably this post is contrary to our business here. But I also think it's important for people to hear different perspectives on this. You may surprise yourself with what kind of life you can lead happily if you can challenge yourself to take a leap

haha..,.such an awesome sentence.

Adam is right tho, ones ambitions and goals in life change as you age. The long nights grinding to 4 am are not as appealing to many who have a young family.

I will say this, if one does switch professions from poker to whatever...make sure its a job that you like and not one just for the monies. If you like/love poker than you best get a job that you like/love or you will be left feeling empty.

Good luck yall and its a shitty positon no one should have to be in.

once again this thread rapes, it should seriously inspire everyone to share their damn story i will start off by saying that 4everunknowns post was epic and my boy appst08s thread was also the nuts such good points well said there jason.

I am no where near a baller but I thought I would share some input. I started grinding online seriously about 4 years ago when I was in school at Appalachian State. I shipped like 30 k in a summer and pretty much thought I was Warren Buffet. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life except grind all day everyday. I eventually stop going to class and failed out with a whooping .6 gpa. The worst feeling in the fucking world happened when I told my parents I failed out of school. I would have probably given all the money I had made back to not have to do that.

But then one day I was grinding and some kid named appst08 messaged me and was like yo man I see u been doing good lately lets get up. My first thought was who is this fagot but then I found out he lived at the same apartment complex and we have been boys ever since. Dude is the king of networking and shares the same ongoing poker passion i do.

Then the downswing kicked in and I realized I was fucking up in and school and eventually got my grades back up and got back into App (thank you God). I was going broke fast and my boy Lee118 decided to back me. I am forever grateful because he believed in me and gave me a shot. I made a good amount of money for us both and eventually I went back on my own. I continued to hit some decent scores and play literally all day everyday. I couldnt wait to wakeup and play the next morning. Then it happened. Lee called me and said its over and I was just in fucking shock. I just keep thinking it was some kind of misclick by the DOJ and there was no way this was permanent. How can we live in the best country in the world and have this happen? I had a good amount of money saved luckily and decided to go to vegas 3 times this past summer. OBV a horrible mistake blew bout 60 percent of my life roll. Another huge factor that made me start doubting this game were the scummy ppl in it. I have heard so many stories about ppl being lied to and scammed out of money after BF and before I defended poker players and actually believed they were honest ppl. Not saying everyone is but seems like there are a lot more douches than good guys here of late.

After I got back I decided to just pretty much give it up. It was hard I love the game but in the end I was just not doing anything other than wasting my life away for a few bucks. I began focusing on my major recreation management. I have finally found something I am good at in life, helping people with disabilities and sports. Sure I miss poker, i miss walking around the bar with stacks in my wallet like I was a drug dealer, I miss random vegas trips, I miss the gay skype convos, i miss the nervous/anxious feeling going into a Ft with the CL, i miss the thrill of a sunday funday but when I look back at it I am a lot more of a well rounded person now who might actually do something with his life even tho I will be richer when I was 20 and a failout than I am 24 with a college degree. I will always love poker but i will never move out of country or to vegas for it because i believe that would be a miserable life for me and merge just makes me want to kill a penguin. but that is all and GL to everyone

"waking up at 6:48 everyday, taking the same 13 minute shower everyday, taking a hour lunch at 12 everdyay, getting off at 5 everyday and driving in traffic everyday until friday comes where you will go to the bar 1 night out of the weekend and realize you are falling into the same mold as the people you said you would never be like on that tuesday night at 5am when you finish up that last tourney with a sunday saver." Appst08 tho

hmmmm... such a mixed relationship i have with poker.. it gave me alot and also was so taxing buth emotionally and on me physically... i can say confidently that i am much happier on my path right now (working, applying to law school, getting married) then i was playing full time but i do miss the money and, more importantly, friends... i know that at the end of the road being a plaintiff's attorney will earn me so much more lifetime and give me the satisfaction of helping clients that need it, but i really despise the idea that my hand was forced by political considerations and ideology that are antithetical to my personal beliefs... i really do wish the best of luck to people who have moved on from poker or who continue to grind it out but, coming from someone who really did compete against the best mtt'ers in the world consistently, realize that the precariousness of the poker life CAN NOT be overstated and the satisfaction of winning will always be overwhelmed by the bitterness of losing as long as the competition is the main motivating factor /nospellcheckendrant

No matter what, most of you will be just fine..When you hit 50 like me, you'll look back and know you was doing what you wanted to do, then. Whether it was a good or bad decision doesnt really matter much in the bigger picture. Theres big time comfort and serenity in knowing you did what you wanted to do..So many folks end up looking back in regret (which is sad as hell)...Dont really got the words, but y'all are gonna be fine..You're all smart, and aware...Old guy advice: take sum fricken pictures..have a old school photo album..I been in a lot places and done alot of things, kept pictures, ticket stubs etc etc, and now my photo albums are my favoritest things!
To the .60 cent taco guy grinding in mehico: Ask em' whats in them taco's, just look at it funny and say "que es?"...ya never know man..when I asked, they said "tortuga"...I had been eating turtle meat tacos for like a week there..Didnt get sick or anything..But they could have said "ballsack of giraffe" and I wouldnt have been none the wiser...
To the million dollar badge guy workin video store: As a post BF fish learnin your game, I look up to you badged up guys...I totally assume you'll be back when 'its' back, right?

 

Originally Posted by siola

... realize that the precariousness of the poker life CAN NOT be overstated and the satisfaction of winning will always be overwhelmed by the bitterness of losing as long as the competition is the main motivating factor /nospellcheckendrant

that's a point of view, but the unsatisfying life that the average MTT player is living occurs mostly because they usually just sleep the day and play the night, alone in the dark in the front of a computer, imo.

@ Siola Not sure if I understand you well siola, basicaly you saying the money you lose allways hurts way more than the money you win? And that you will allwyas have mor elosing days than winning days? The long time feeling you get from that? Coming from an accomplished player as you says a lot (allways had tons of respect for you, players like you make me wanna improve and compete)...
But did I understand you well? can you elaborate that last sentance? tx

And I think liquidsword is refering to european grinders, no? elaborate your answer please
But yeah I can def confrim that, at beginning I loved it since I hate getting up in the morning but now its just tearing on my physical and mental health, its just not a natural way of living and after a while you will notice it more and more... And also its even tougher to balance life and poker when you wake up at 16.00... Def no whining about it, everything has his pros and cons...

 

Originally Posted by siola

of course its just a point of view- but i know zero people of all the mtt'ers ive ever known who fit the description you listed- i would guess that its just a theoretical lifetstyle you think mtt'ers live

i've been slightly too extreme in my descrpition maybe, but i played the late night mtts on ftp on a daily basis pre bf, and most of the regulars were americans or canadians that were grinding for the whole night, and i know it's really tough to follow these kind of scheduleds and being happy in life at the same time. its not only a theorical thing, also speak from experience.

I was at a point at the end of 2011 where I was certain I was going to quit and find a new job. but havent yet. I'm addicted to the lifestyle of making my own hours, working from home, and going out whenever I want, even though it almost never matters since all of my friends have regular jobs. Missing the game and the grind is not something Im concerned about since I know I won't, but the idea of waking up at the same early hour every day, 5 days a week, makes me physically ill. the gold rush is over folks, if you have the means to get a regular job, I suggest you do it, because the longer youre out of the working world, the harder it is to get back in. Poker is always going to be there for people in some form, so theres no need in pretending like you have to play it while youre still young

 

Originally Posted by swd805

The "gold rush" is not over, but it got harder to mine out the gold. If you are a dedicated, hard working, solid player you can still make good money. Of course if you arent happy as a poker pro then move on.

lol, if the gold is becoming harder to mine out, then the gold rush is clearly over. theres still gold in alaska, doesn't mean theres a gold rush. if people want to keep playing poker, then by all means do it. but we're at a point right now where the doj, and other factors have made it as hard as humanly possible for people to make a living at this game, yet people continue to resist and continue to play. Sometimes I feel like I'm on the run from the feds, and it gets harder every day to keep living on the run, exploiting weakness as I go

 

Originally Posted by Haze33

1 mill in cashes, and now working for $10 per hour, my assumption that this was a lot of smoke and mirrors was correct. In no way am I bagging on you here but F me, guess the money was never real. Good luck in your new gig

You're not "bagging" but you def don't understand. .......And this convo won't go longer because I don't think you WANT to understand nor to comprehend. The $ was real, the decisions were real and the dedication he had to grind day in, day out was real.

I�ve thought about this subject a decent amount and feel like I can add to it since I�m in a completely different place than I was 6 months ago.

I lived in Vegas for a few years playing poker and loved it. Black Friday was absolutely the worst thing that could have happened to me at the absolute worst time. I was on my largest downswing ever being backed and had lost enough of my personal roll to where I didn�t have the ability to travel anywhere besides Vegas and LA. The WSOP was kind of my last shot at trying to get something going and needless to say, I didn�t get it going. I kind of floated around for a few months after that trying to grind up a roll playing cash and staying consistent, but it wasn�t working. Eventually I decided something had to change. I didn�t want to wake up 5 years down the road (I was 24 at the time) and still be playing poker live in the casinos in Las Vegas. I just didn�t see myself getting to any level of personal success doing that. For the record, I definitely thought that online poker gave me the extra chance to succeed and make a large amount of money player poker. Without online poker, I didn�t see the ability to progress as a poker player the way I wanted to and build a career out of it. I didn�t want to have a wife and/or kids and be grinding 2/5 at Bellagio lol.

I moved back to my hometown and gave up poker and focused on getting my shit back together and getting a career going. Luckily, I have a degree and had something else to fall back on. I�ve since got a job that I love and gives me a lot of freedom and have started to play poker again a little bit on the weekends. I�ve got to say, taking several months off from poker was the best thing I could have done. Playing is fun again. I still don�t really have a concept of the money but it�s nice to be able to not worry about losing and just having fun with it. I don�t wear headphones while playing anymore. Talking and interacting with people at the table is fun. I don�t tilt when people play bad vs me and get there. Time off really has changed my entire outlook on poker. I live in KY though which doesn�t even allow Merge/Cake so that sucks. I�d like to be able to play on the weekends online.

One thing I can say is that I wish I had defined goals better as a professional player and done more to get that shit done. I messed around too much when I was playing full time. I didn�t take advantage of my opportunities and I really don�t think I played in the most optimal way. I think I just wanted to play the highest stakes with (who I thought was) the best and it didn�t matter what my ROI was. It really bothers me now looking back how I thought I deserved to be playing high stakes online when I don�t think I had the results to be playing HS on a regular basis. I feel like had I actually treated it like a job I wouldn�t have had to make the decisions that I did. I still have a desire to play high stakes again and hope I�ll get the chance to. I honestly think I�m a much better poker player now simply from having an entirely new mindset and just being happy when I play for fun and play for the competition. I know that I�m in a mindset where I could crush poker again and wish that I could play but I don�t think I even would commit to it full time again without online poker or a life changing score. I�m confident that online poker will come back relatively soon but not in any form that we used to see.

I�m not sure I was fit to play professionally when I was a year ago. Maybe it was the fact that it all got taken away from me or maybe I�ve matured a bit with the extra responsibilities I�ve taken on. Looking back on it, I really do miss it and wish I could be doing the professional thing again. Actually, I probably shouldn�t refer to myself as a former professional, but a former full time player.

Anyways, I could probably continue to ramble on, but I do miss online poker and poker in general and still think it would be awesome to play full time again. GL to all those still grinding it out.