I think it's the full tilt gang, and its not even close. I mean we are talking about way more money with the howard and the boys than with the AP/UB scandal. I mean almost a year and still millions of dollars owed to thousands of players...

i think its russ.

reason russ goal was to 100% cheat ppl to get money

what the ft did was terrible also but before US stepped in you were still getting paid.

both a joke tho

 

Originally Posted by RedIceRap

i really never trusted any site than stars. i didnt lose any money cause of that full tilt scandal. i didnt like their software, support, their strange tourneys like rush or multi entry etc. and it's really that full tilt thing that upsets me the most. every single poker friend i know irl loved FT and only played there. also a lot of very good players played mainly on FT, for reasons i dont understand. just think about it: all the rush and multi entry tourneys! they knew that BF was comming! im pretty sure. why didnt they run rush and ME back in 2009? they just knew it! even before BF i said to all my friends that this company seems to be pretty greedy.

Maybe Rush/METs weren't invented back then

 

Originally Posted by ApesAreFun

Russ is obv the biggest pos. Anyone who says otherways does NOT have a clue about what he did.

I followed this scandal very closely, and the first point that needs to be made is that it wasn't just Russ. Yeah he is a HUGE pos, but this went very high up in AP/UB, Russ was the scapegoat, but there were pages full of accounts that we know were involved in this, and we will never know the full extent of how high or how broad this cheating got, because there are still a ton of missing documentation (hand histories, transfer logs, financial records, ect.) My only point is that with Full tilt, nobody in the US has gotten paid, and what Russ and his accomplices stole, is pennies compared to what is owed to US players on Full Tilt.

And just to clarify, this is not just sour grapes or me being bias, i lost $0 in the AP/UB scandal, and i had $0 on fulltilt on BF.

miss the good old ftops without mets and rush and hyper shhhht!

 

Originally Posted by Much__Bettor

red is 100% correct and many people stated at the time something was about to happen because of the way FT were operating, the were tryuing to grab as much rake as possible with the multi entry and numerous double guarantee weeks just befor BF

I was in denial during this period and enjoying the 10 game on FTP. Even after black friday I continued there for a few weeks. I wasn't getting really worried until stars started paying people off and FTP was less than forthcoming with announcements and when they came out they didn't say much. There were alot of people worried about FTP pre-black Friday because of their slow payouts to US customers (international was quick even after black friday), their e-check deposit floating issue that people were stealing from them (and if this exploitation/theft didn't happen or was prevented, FTP should have had enough money to pay people back their money) was starting to leak out, and METs. Wish I could say in hindsight I knew, and I am lucky that I didn't get burned for more money than I did. I hope the sale goes through and everyone gets refunded.

As far as the OP's question goes, its a real tough call to me. What Hamilton did might have brought the spotlight onto black friday to begin with. The issue was huge at the time, and was in main stream media like 60 Minutes. The new management of UB/AP was similar to the management at FTP, so have to put them just about in the same boat where they were basically robbing the players to pay themselves and some of their expenses (including paying their site pros/schills, and giving out ridiculous loans).

 

Originally Posted by RedIceRap

i really never trusted any site than stars. i didnt lose any money cause of that full tilt scandal. i didnt like their software, support, their strange tourneys like rush or multi entry etc. and it's really that full tilt thing that upsets me the most. every single poker friend i know irl loved FT and only played there. also a lot of very good players played mainly on FT, for reasons i dont understand. just think about it: all the rush and multi entry tourneys! they knew that BF was comming! im pretty sure. why didnt they run rush and ME back in 2009? they just knew it! even before BF i said to all my friends that this company seems to be pretty greedy.

redice i agree i said this right out the gate that i thought they knew about the doj before bf as well all it takes is one politician/agent that likes extra money for the tipoff they ran those multi entries and as well they attacked my acct. for money on a DENIED cc deposit 2 weeks before bf and i heard i wasnt the only one,and know i'm not talkn about the deposits that players got over on, they went ahead processed 5 month old denied transactions as well............those bastards knew ,the writing is on the wall

btw howard and ferg reek the most imo they knew about all the inside money situations on ftp