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A must read!!! DOJ suggests that unlike sports betting, poker is not a game of skill

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  1. supra1988t supra1988t is online now

    Cary, IL
    United States

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    Joined: Sep 05

    Nov 12th, 2011 (11/12/2011 8:06pm) in reply to FenwayKing

     
    Originally Posted by FenwayKing View Post

    lol america

    sfthis. politics are disgusting.
    649 
  2. P0KERDUUDE P0KERDUUDE is offline

    NH
    United States

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    Nov 12th, 2011 (11/12/2011 8:11pm) in reply to x_Driven_x

    The DOJ should take up a second job as stand up comics to help pay off the debt
     
  3. scottypimpin1 scottypimpin1 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

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    Nov 12th, 2011 (11/12/2011 9:52pm) in reply to P0KERDUUDE

    The DOJ obviously doesn't have any poker players or knowledge of the game, a damn shame.
  4. bustindustin bustindustin is offline

    La Mirada, CA
    United States

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    Nov 12th, 2011 (11/12/2011 10:11pm) in reply to x_Driven_x

    Ok, so, if you are getting your money all in as a 4:1 favorite such as 75%-25% or better, what is the luck factor in the game then?
     
  5. evechad evechad is offline

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    Nov 12th, 2011 (11/12/2011 10:28pm) in reply to x_Driven_x

    I always knew I was lucky, and this confirmed it. seriously tho, the DOJ is in no place to judge chance vs skill. any tiny amount of skill that gives a player or better a tiny edge should be enough to keep it legal. otherwise your just drawing imaginary lines.
     1
  6. jsagan77 jsagan77 is offline

    Honolulu, HI
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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 3:03am) in reply to evechad

    The US government has once again overstepped it's bounds. They are not here to regulate every part of our lives, particularly the part where we spend the money we earn. So stupid on so many levels. Since it's a game of luck I guess we should do a test and allow the DOJ to take his entire salary and retirement and put it up in a cash game against 8 of the worlds best cash game specialists so we can truly see how much luck plays a factor.

    The US is a joke any more when it comes to stuff like this.
  7. norv norv is online now

    New Zealand

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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 3:58am) in reply to jsagan77

    there must be lots of luck and chance in poker otherwise i'd be top 10 ranked...........................hehe
  8. arukidinme arukidinme is offline

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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 4:23am) in reply to Whatshoulditbe

    I laughed at this too, guess they never looked up the term muck. I could 5bet call AA all in pre flop, let it run out AA269 and muck if I chose. Don't think that I can choose to lose in any other game of luck. Perhaps the DOJ should wake up. Sorry US players really feel for you guys at time.
  9. toddm902 toddm902 is offline

    Madison, WI
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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 4:40am) in reply to ACheemz

    I think the obvious thing to do is set up a tournament with members of the DOJ and some of the top poker players and see who comes out on top.

     
    Originally Posted by ACheemz View Post

    Has anyone seen this?

    http://www.pokernews.com/news/2011/1...mpos-11415.htm

    A damn joke if you ask me.

  10. DiamondDixi DiamondDixi is offline

    Rome, GA
    United States

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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 5:02am) in reply to toddm902

    Let those DOJ bastards that wrote that bull shit sit down for games with the top P5 players and they can see how little skill there is in poker.

    Stupid moronic idiots!

    What I'd like to see is an unbiased study Using groups of 100 online players per group

    First group are players who've played for, say, 3 years and who have actively worked on improving their game. They study, read, watch videos and review their games on a regular basis and they have since they started playing. These players also put in a reasonable volume, let's say all have played at least 5000 games online if tournament players or 250,000 or so hands of cash if they're cash players.

    Second group - players who've played the same amount of time but are purely recreational players who don't study, review or really try to improve their game in anyway. They strictly play for the fun of playing. They have a sample size that's is a fraction of the more serious player.

    Third group - players who are fairly new to the game, haven't studied but have learned the rules and have played enough to have a clue what they are doing.

    Have them all play in open field events in the same games over a month and compare their results. I'm pretty sure group one's profit will by far outweigh the other two groups and I'd bet most of the new and recreational players will actually lose money while the players in group one will show a significant profit. Add group 4 the top 10% of players on P5s and you'll see them make a much greater profit than the players in group one.

    I think this type of study would prove that skill plays a huge part in poker. It really pisses me off when idiots who don't have a clue what they're talking about say poker is nothing but gambling and skill doesn't matter. I've worked my ass off on my game for as long as I've played and my first year, as expected I lost money, 2nd year I was just better than break even and this year even with f'ing Black Friday I actually have made some money. I certainly didn't get lucky all of a sudden, as a matter of fact between 2/10 and 8/10 on pokerstars I was running quite a bit above EV but didn't do much better than break even. Since BF I've actually run consistently below EV but I've still made money. No skill my ass.

    I feel better now. :-)
    Edited By: DiamondDixi Nov 13th, 2011 at 05:07 AM
  11. moriAArty moriAArty is offline

    Rosemount, MN
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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 7:34am) in reply to DiamondDixi

    The DOJ does not make the laws, they enforce them. That is their only job. This has absolutely zero impact on the future of Poker in the US. This news is of very little consequence and really not worthy of even a headline.
  12. 13inches 13inches is offline

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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 9:25am) in reply to moriAArty

    Sports point spreads were first adopted by the wise-guy illegal bookmakers in the early 1900's simply to get bettors to lay money on the underdogs. Many kneecaps have been broken in the U.S. through the years over unpaid sports bets, and kneecaps are STILL being broken today over unpaid sports bets. I find it INCREDIBLY bazaar and hypocritical and completely insane that the damn DOJ is suddenly shouting loudly about how great sports betting is and how much skill is required above that of a poker game. I bet on sports every day and I play poker every day and BOTH activities require much skill to make long term profits. The DOJ has their heads so far up their asses they cannot breathe. The DOJ is full of a bunch of fucking CLOWNS !!
  13. Aaron_Hacker Aaron_Hacker is offline

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    Nov 13th, 2011 (11/13/2011 11:44pm) in reply to 13inches

     
    Originally Posted by 13inches View Post

    Sports point spreads were first adopted by the wise-guy illegal bookmakers in the early 1900's simply to get bettors to lay money on the underdogs. Many kneecaps have been broken in the U.S. through the years over unpaid sports bets, and kneecaps are STILL being broken today over unpaid sports bets. I find it INCREDIBLY bazaar and hypocritical and completely insane that the damn DOJ is suddenly shouting loudly about how great sports betting is and how much skill is required above that of a poker game. I bet on sports every day and I play poker every day and BOTH activities require much skill to make long term profits. The DOJ has their heads so far up their asses they cannot breathe. The entire federal government is full of a bunch of fucking CLOWNS !!

    this
     
  14. kcd0g kcd0g is offline

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    Nov 14th, 2011 (11/14/2011 12:11am) in reply to Aaron_Hacker

    Eh, it's one response from the DOJ to one pretrial motion, I wouldn't get in too much of a stitch over it. Ultimately, it's Congress that's going to decide on the legality of online poker, not the DOJ. Did you think their response was going to be "well, good point, charges dropped"?
  15. Crystal extacY Crystal extacY is offline

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    Nov 14th, 2011 (11/14/2011 2:13am) in reply to kcd0g

    lol..facepalm
  16. Adam Adam is offline Emperor

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    Nov 14th, 2011 (11/14/2011 3:21am) in reply to Crystal extacY

    Sorry for not having read the whole thread before responding... I have skimmed through the stuff from the DOJ and am pretty sure what they're saying is not that one is more skill than the other. I believe what they're trying to say is that it's not relevant whether or not skill is involved - being a game of skill and being "gambling" are not mutually exclusive. And the skill argument isn't one that is relevant in the cases the DOJ has made against FTP, stars and UB/AP
     
  17. David Whats David Whats is offline

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    Nov 14th, 2011 (11/14/2011 9:03am) in reply to wackyJaxon

     
    Originally Posted by wackyJaxon View Post

    Agree that both are games of skill that also have a gambling and a variance element to them. One could argue that betting on the stock market or currency fluctuations which are legal to do in the US on the internet, although take skill, have higher variance than Poker or Sportsbetting.

    This.

    They need to go arrest the whole of Wall Street, I'm sure their transactions are mostly on line.
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