Originally Posted by adamsapple19

So what's going on with this? Any progress been made towards resolution?

I sent him a text yesterday asking him to take a look at the responses and let me know what he wants to do. He hasn't responded to me yet.

dude bounced on 13k MU don't know how that doesnt make him a thief..
Who cares if OP is a douche millions of people hate their boss.

 

Originally Posted by ImanTheGreat

Yea i don't think it matters if OP is an asshole that's not really the issue. The issue is if he is owed money or not, I don't think anyone can make an argument that since he is an asshole and didn't treat BBJ nicely, that that gives him a right to say he owes nothing. Plus this is a decent amount of money it's not just a few hundred, a few bad plays at 5/10 will cost OP even more money, and the dude said live isn't for him. Once he realizes he still owes money, then he changes his mind? Like how could the OP trust him especially after how everything else went down? Would you really keep staking someone who admits he is a losing player money who basically quit on the agreement? IMO BBJ is taking the easy way out and trying to use any argument in his favor to get out of his MU, which is some bullshit.

Plus if BBJ didn't really enjoy the deal, he should have just quit when he made money. Obviously BBJ is respected but I'd have to agree with OP and I would just make a payment plan or something. The sorry I'm broke forever and won't be able to pay you is a lame cop out.

Exactly how I feel. Minus him being the respected one in this issue. I'm not huge into forums, but I'm friends with a lot of very well respected people in the poker community. I could have plenty of people come in here and vouch and sway everyone completely, but I'm keeping any bias out of the situation in order to come to a fair solution. A lot of things have been taken out of context and come across as douchey and attacking, but anyone that knows me IRL knows I'm as honest as they come and am far from a douche, unless I feel that I'm being taken advantage of. I'm not trying to screw Kori out of anything, I just want what I am entitled to.

I still haven't got any response back from him.

I admit that my choices of reasoning for leaving FL does not make me out to look the best in this situation, however me saying that I missed my family, or didnt like FL, was me being the nice southern gentleman that I am, instead of saying "Mike you are a fucking douche bag and I cant fucking stand you, and I am not sure how anyone could enjoy being associated with you." which is really what i meant. There was never any doubt in my mind that I was in and responsible for make up. Whenever I told Mike that I wasn't interested in living with him, the very first thing I asked for was to keep the make up dormant until I could play online again. And for him to say that i was not a winning player at the games we were playing is laughable. I Was up overall in cash the ENTIRE time I was in Florida. The only reason for the make up at all was that I bricked out all MTTs including 1600s and 2500 buy ins.

I never agreed to staking deal contingent on me living with mike. The conversation about the make up deal is this: We were sitting in Mikes kitchen, a day or two before he went to Ky for a wedding and he asked told me "since you're staying to play while i'm gone I assume you want a Make up deal." I agreed and no other stipulations were ever discussed. At that point in time I wasnt even aware if Jay were moving there 100% or not. 2 weeks later when Mike returned from Ky and I had been home for a few days and Mike impaitiently rushed us back... Mike and I were in the grocery store and said to me "You need to decide what you're doing because when we go down to the isle for the tournies i'm gonna be looking for condo's, and if you arent going to stay you have will have to share a room with Jay." This was the first time that I agreed to moving. TWO WEEKS after i had already agreed to a make up deal, and a month or more after I had been playing 5/10 and winning the entire time. After spending a few weeks with Mike in a hotel it was then I realized I was not content with living with him any longer. I knew i was responsible for the make up when i left Florida and never thought otherwise. The very first thing I proposed and requested when Mike accused me of fucking him out of the make up, was that the make up become dormant until I can play online. I also offered several options to circumvent this situation. I told him that I would rather take periodic trips south to play the make up off instead of moving. I also asked for the option of playing in other casinos closer to my home in Ky. Mike denied all of these request simply demanded that I pay him the make up. When he refused to allow the make up to become dormant, I THEN said that I would return to Florida to play live again. I had already discussed and made other living arrangements with some other friends that live in South Florida. He THEN told me he was not interested in backing me anymore. Again DEMANDING that I only Pay him the make up.

 

Originally Posted by blackberry_jam

I admit that my choices of reasoning for leaving FL does not make me out to look the best in this situation, however me saying that I missed my family, or didnt like FL, was me being the nice southern gentleman that I am, instead of saying "Mike you are a fucking douche bag and I cant fucking stand you, and I am not sure how anyone could enjoy being associated with you." which is really what i meant. There was never any doubt in my mind that I was in and responsible for make up. Whenever I told Mike that I wasn't interested in living with him, the very first thing I asked for was to keep the make up dormant until I could play online again. And for him to say that i was not a winning player at the games we were playing is laughable. I Was up overall in cash the ENTIRE time I was in Florida. The only reason for the make up at all was that I bricked out all MTTs including 1600s and 2500 buy ins.

I never agreed to staking deal contingent on me living with mike. The conversation about the make up deal is this: We were sitting in Mikes kitchen, a day or two before he went to Ky for a wedding and he asked told me "since you're staying to play while i'm gone I assume you want a Make up deal." I agreed and no other stipulations were ever discussed. At that point in time I wasnt even aware if Jay were moving there 100% or not. 2 weeks later when Mike returned from Ky and I had been home for a few days and Mike impaitiently rushed us back... Mike and I were in the grocery store and said to me "You need to decide what you're doing because when we go down to the isle for the tournies i'm gonna be looking for condo's, and if you arent going to stay you have will have to share a room with Jay." This was the first time that I agreed to moving. TWO WEEKS after i had already agreed to a make up deal, and a month or more after I had been playing 5/10 and winning the entire time. After spending a few weeks with Mike in a hotel it was then I realized I was not content with living with him any longer. I knew i was responsible for the make up when i left Florida and never thought otherwise. The very first thing I proposed and requested when Mike accused me of fucking him out of the make up, was that the make up become dormant until I can play online. I also offered several options to circumvent this situation. I told him that I would rather take periodic trips south to play the make up off instead of moving. I also asked for the option of playing in other casinos closer to my home in Ky. Mike denied all of these request simply demanded that I pay him the make up. When he refused to allow the make up to become dormant, I THEN said that I would return to Florida to play live again. I had already discussed and made other living arrangements with some other friends that live in South Florida. He THEN told me he was not interested in backing me anymore. Again DEMANDING that I only Pay him the make up.

Let me timeline this for you again

1. Kori claims Mike never said anything about needing to live in florida for a makeup deal to come about. Kori says Mike is a flat out liar.
2. Mike says Kori is FOS and tries to explain why he is right
3. Kori posts chat transcripts that PROVE (these are in this thread) that I told you that you MUST LIVE IN FLORIDA FOR A MAKEUP DEAL.

Somehow you're still going with the "he never said I had to move to florida" line?

I'm over the arguments, all the facts have been presented. If you agree to arbitration (which you already have, just confirming), we will take the next step in having some reputable unbiased people arbitrate this issue for us.

For the record, I think it's hilarious that you never had a single problem with me until you left Florida and were told by multiple people you can't just bail on the deal and you're liable. I haven't come across many people that flat out hate me before, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sorry I tried to motivate you by calling you a girl. I do that with everyone. Apparently you can't handle judgement at all. Sorry I tried to show you a good time, sorry I tried lending you money and giving you an opportunity that was only presented because you're a friend of a friend (I had no interest in backing anyone to be completely honest), and lastly I'm sorry for doing nice things like lending you my car and house, and taking you out to nice dinners on me. You're right, I'm an awful backer and an awful person.

I hope you're satisfied with whatever the arbitrators decide is fair and this can be over with.

Edit: The money lent isn't questionable, so I'd appreciate that being put in the mail ASAP as the makeup is being settled.

 

Originally Posted by sirjwab

The only thing I really disagree with you doing is physical threats. And saying stupid shit like ask so and so how I dealt with him when he disrespected me. All the other shit talking is fun between friends imo.

I agree the threats at the end were out of line and those were meant to be attacking. Everything else that was said to him was in good fun and meant in no way at all to be harmful. I spoke to him (and a lot of close friends) in that way throughout the entirety of this. To use that against me in the end is laughable. He knew how I was and knows that nothing was meant to be taken personally. He's just trying to make me look bad on here. Like a lot of people have said in this thread already.. The way I spoke to him was consistent. If he had a problem with it, why not quit when he was up money and tell me he dislikes me? He never seemed to have an issue with me until he left Florida and was told by people that he was liable. I'm sure me blowing up on him helped him hate me, but I'm hot headed and he was looking for any way to weasel out of the deal and screw me over and my head essentially exploded.

[Sep 6, 2011] Mike : If you moved here I would back you. Not really interested in backing this and then waiting until online comes back if it ever does to resume it. Rather stick to live
[Sep 6, 2011] Kori iPhone: Yeah I would be willing to get backed for all live play. Whether there or wherever. If making the move down there to get a deal like that is what I gotta do then I'd be willig to do it I suppose. I'd kinda like to wait and see how it goes at first tho.
[Sep 6, 2011] Mike : Not worried about swings. It's only going to be 7 days this trip tho that's why we have to figure that out for now. Jay said he will consider moving here, going to see how he likes it this trip
[Sep 6, 2011] Mike : There are 2ks like once a month down here and I think you can make like 100/hr playing 5-10. That's what I'd back you in. Obv if you find 500s running or something or 2-5 that would be fine too
[Sep 6, 2011] Kori iPhone: I've already put much thought into making the move.
[Sep 6, 2011] Kori iPhone: Lemme txt u when I'm not driving. Gimmie 10 min
[Sep 6, 2011] Mike : Either way we can decide on that stuff after you guys spend some time around here. I think for the first trip we should do makeup if you decide to move and no makeup if you don't. I'll do 60-40 makeup and 75-25 no makeup. If you move here and are doing well I'd give you better than 60-40
[Sep 6, 2011] Kori iPhone: Is 60-40 pretty standard cash game deal
Starting? I've never been staked for cash. Only mtts. And I always started 50-50 with mtts? Honestly I am going to need a backer full time from
Here on. If you would be willing to pick me up and stake me in live birds as well as full time 5/10 I'd move no matter what.
[Sep 6, 2011] Kori iPhone: But I have a house here in KY. Along with my family and g/f so imgonna do some traveling back and forth. Spend a little time here but most of it
South Florida or wherever the grind may be.
[Sep 6, 2011] Kori iPhone: I pretty much turned down that job under the impression that I'd still be playing poker instead. So yah I'm all for moving south. But we can talk more bout it once I get there.


Just to refresh your memory of how things went down. This was our conversation BEFORE he ever came to Florida.

 

Originally Posted by blackberry_jam

All of this was said in txt messages a month prior to me coming to Florida. Then nothing was ever stated again... Am i lying about how the conversation went before you went to Ky? And then again... am I lying about how the conversation went about living arrangements? Im sure you will mis remember for the sake of your argument but that facts are that what i stated is 100% true. I never tried to weasel out of the deal... once i started losing and you saw that i was unhappy being there, and once i told you i was not interested in living with you... YOU saw a perfect opportunity to weasel YOURSELF out of backing me any further! when I told you that i would come back and play you said you weren't interested anymore. You weren't interested in backing me anymore and were looking for a scapegoat to get yourself out of backing me

I said i was all for moving south... then i said "But we can talk more bout it once I get there." the fact is... we talked about it like i stated earlier. The conversations were exactly like said them. I remember them very plainly. 2 weeks after you had already agreed to a make up deal it was STILL UNDETERMINED whether or not i would be living full time with you and Jay.

And as for the physical threats... regardless of you being a hot head and losing your cool or whatever... if you wanna get serious about it... thats grounds enough to have to arrested for terroristic threatening.

Fwiw, from reading this, BBJ does say he's all for moving south n all that...but that he'd talk more about it in the future. He doesn't flat out say ok im taking this deal and moving for sure.

your really raping fellas doing 60-40 with mu...jus sayin

 

Originally Posted by double_kyan

wow i felt the same way 60-40 with make -up fqkn holy shit , do we get a lunch tossed in,maybe an egg sandwich or 2? talk about tilting your horses into hating the game............

Bax and Sheets do 60-40, and after 2 winning months, bump it to 50-50. I offered him the same thing. I wasn't trying to take advantage, I thought it was pretty standard. He also has extremely limited live experience and has essentially 1 decent online mtt score that skew his stats. Obviously I thought he would be profitable in the games, but it's not like he is a top player looking for backing.

FWIW I'm pretty sure I started my other horse off at the same rate. He proved himself and got 50-50. Got really good and was bumped to 55-45 his favor. I don't think it's unreasonable at all. I also would think right now is a backers market, there are very few people that are willing to back people live, especially of his caliber. If he thought he could get a better deal, it's up to him to pursue it. He needed a backer, I didn't need a horse. I also spoke to Jay (the mutual friend) about what would be a fair cut and we agreed on this setup. I honestly wasn't trying to take advantage of anyone.

 

Originally Posted by blackberry_jam

All of this was said in txt messages a month prior to me coming to Florida. Then nothing was ever stated again... Am i lying about how the conversation went before you went to Ky? And then again... am I lying about how the conversation went about living arrangements? Im sure you will mis remember for the sake of your argument but that facts are that what i stated is 100% true. I never tried to weasel out of the deal... once i started losing and you saw that i was unhappy being there, and once i told you i was not interested in living with you... YOU saw a perfect opportunity to weasel YOURSELF out of backing me any further! when I told you that i would come back and play you said you weren't interested anymore. You weren't interested in backing me anymore and were looking for a scapegoat to get yourself out of backing me

I said i was all for moving south... then i said "But we can talk more bout it once I get there." the fact is... we talked about it like i stated earlier. The conversations were exactly like said them. I remember them very plainly. 2 weeks after you had already agreed to a make up deal it was STILL UNDETERMINED whether or not i would be living full time with you and Jay.

And as for the physical threats... regardless of you being a hot head and losing your cool or whatever... if you wanna get serious about it... thats grounds enough to have to arrested for terroristic threatening.

 

Originally Posted by sirjwab

lol wut?

911 dawg, never forget

I can't understand why people get in deals for thousands of dollars and don't make a contract? I mean it just seems silly/irresponsible to not come up with a written contract before hand, especially with someone you don't know very well. As this thread proves your verbal agreement wasn't very clear. Honestly at this point I think Kori needs to pay the loans he was given and then you both need to move on.
In a perfect world I think a situation where he keeps playing for Mike would be optimal, but I can't see A) Mike trusting Kori with his money any longer & B) Kori playing optimally while being Mike's horse.

 

Originally Posted by Jymaster0011

911 dawg, never forget

Finally something we can all agree on


After reading all the teXts and posts I gotta say I agree w BBJ if his side of the story is true. Also just from reading the teXts it seems as if BBJ was never set on on moving and it was contingent on how he felt after being down there for a sample period of time.

Lol, this is gettin' pretty funny... as far as the contract goes though, I don't think that gambling contracts are binding or really carry any weight in the court of law. As far as for a guidelines to some sort of mediated arbitration if necessary, well I can see that value. For the most part though, these types of situations are supposed to be between trusted and respected peers, and usually they are more than just acquaintances and rl friends.

 

Originally Posted by Ahurazor

Firstly Your relationship with your horse "kori" is laughable how can you expect someone to play optimally under you with little to no leeway. It's one thing to say oh we joke around and bag each other its normal bla bla, and yea i can look past that but to do it on touchy subjects like calling him a pussy and what other names you did when hes down on his game or on his financial problems(to lazy to go back and quote, yes i did read all of it.)

Chopping his early profit was another thing im confused on. Ive been happily backed now for roughly the last year or a bit more and the flexibility these guys have with me is just do different to what you offer. This thread really makes much appreciate my backers that much more(not that i didnt already appreciate them) I can take cash advances when needed and they will let me chop whenever(should by financial situation not be great) and being in reasonable MU currently they have put me on a 2nd mu with cashout options to keep me motivated and happy as a grinder.

Keeping your horses happy is so important. Never under estimate a good frame of mind, I have been quite negative and feelin down and out on a couple of occasions and both times ive spoke with my backers(as they are easily approachable) and they have sorted me out both times thus turnin my mood around and having me eager to grind.

I should also add that taking time off has never been an issue and ive never been required to give notice, if i dont want to play then i dont play thats the end of that. Now as much as i disagree with Mikes ways and the way his overall personality comes accross with his threats of bashing this guy and even suggesting he ask "Jay" "what happened last time he got mouthy"(that just sickens me what sort of person you come accross as when i read this) I still dont think i can see Kori being in the right.

When it comes down to it he clearly said he would be willing to move there for this backing deal and it was clearly stated thats what was required. You cant really say you dont want to move there now and you will grind it off at home or online as that is not what your backed for. As much as I think Kori is a decent guy from what I read, I think he has made a big mistake in rushing into things without thinking properly especially on deciding to live with your boss which is normally not an issue with any backer ive dealt with as they dont seem to use the "boss" title with their actions, But in this case I think Mike obviously does.

I think it was suggested but i forgot. I agree on working something else out whether he visits FL month on month off or something or just random monthly or 2 monthly grinds to grind it off. And if hes not willing to then arrange a payback method(Morally correct thing to do).

In closing, Mike treat your horses better. Dont fucking threaten people, being able to fight doesnt give you extra power to negociate with. I would preferre someone be original and threaten to whop his ass at scrabble or something to prove their point. Anyways without to much more rambling Kori your in the wrong mate as much as i hate to say, I just think It could of been avoided perhaps if Mike had a cooler header on his shoulders and if Kori thought it out more.

what a waste the last hour of my life has been...this thread is a disaster...i agree with everything that ahurazor said...to expand:

mike really does seem like just a massive douche...this cant be said enough...you're basically berating your horse/saying you would fold with two players in hand with qq (i cant remember exactly, seemed like hours ago since i read that part) while your horse is still sitting in the game...your horse basically said ya it was my mistake and you continued beakin about the hand...seriously shut the fuck up...also, do people not realize how absurd it is to not let bbj chop when its one day past the end of the month?...cmon, really?...sisters soccer game, reiterated many times, basically begging, to stay for it...and all you give a fuck about is your own equity (and apparently, his equity? which is just bullshit)...mike just seems like a horrible individual...i could go on for days about how awful he comes off as a person/backer/boss in this thread...just a terrible individual

with that being said, i agree with bbj trying to induce mike saying "im done with you" so that bbj can instantly say "WELL, YOU SAID IT...YOU SAID YOU'RE DONE...I OWE YOU NOTHING"...pretty scummy move as well...and as much as i cant stand mike, he seems to be right here about being owed money, right?

horrible situation, horrible waste of my time, horrible backer...good luck, but i see this going nowhere

I dont post often, but since I read that whole damn thing, I might as well give my two cents.

Def a shitty spot for BBJ, since OP really does seem like a total douche. But seems to me he quit, then tried to change his mind. At that point he owes back 100% mu, plus the loans obv. Cant un-quit in life, especially when your boss is total asshole