[Steve Murkle]

Why are people from Greece so bad at poker?

I just can't fathom why some countries are so much worse than others at this game. Something in their habits? Maybe their diet? Maybe their lack of poker skill says soemthing about their lack of economical prowess in general as a nation?

My personal assessment has concluded that a nation should never do business with another nation that is known as a habitually losing poker nation

[Gags30]

um, i think it more comes down to how they're taught or learn to play poker. i def don't know for sure, but it seems that a lot of europeans that i know/have coached just learn to be more aggressive and crazy very early in their poker career. they just know things like 'raise the button' or 'check/raising is cool', where as americans focus more about starting hand strength and what hands are good to play and what hands are bad.

europeans seem to think that the best players just know all the good spots, and really have 0 regard for starting hands...where as americans think that the best players only play good quality hands and then know how to get the most value with those hands

obv these are blanket statements/extreme statements, and not true in all cases, but i think that the thought processes of the different countries are def something like this

[Illini213]

Some countries have more access to good players than ppl in other countries and tbh it's kinda a learning curve. A few years ago, ppl thought Germans, Brazilians, etc. were clueless and now a lot of them crushing and many more of them doing quite well. Edited By: Illini213 Dec 15th, 2011 at 04:20 PM

[Steve Murkle]

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

um, i think it more comes down to how they're taught or learn to play poker. i def don't know for sure, but it seems that a lot of europeans that i know/have coached just learn to be more aggressive and crazy very early in their poker career. they just know things like 'raise the button' or 'check/raising is cool', where as americans focus more about starting hand strength and what hands are good to play and what hands are bad.

europeans seem to think that the best players just know all the good spots, and really have 0 regard for starting hands...where as americans think that the best players only play good quality hands and then know how to get the most value with those hands

obv these are blanket statements/extreme statements, and not true in all cases, but i think that the thought processes of the different countries are def something like this

This is good insight ty. Do you think balancing both these thought processes is appropriate or is one side more correct than the other in your opinion?

[Pghfan987]

 

Originally Posted by Illini213

Some countries have more access to good players than ppl in other countries and tbh it's kinda a learning curve. A few years ago, ppl thought Germans, Brazilians, etc. were clueless and now a lot of them crushing and many more of them doing quite well.

I definitely agree that Brazil and Germany used to be full of fish, now those players in general seem better. Right now, every player from Russia seems terrible. Not sure why. Obviously some of it can be small sample size/ my perception.

[nagnog]

xenophobia ITT

[MarkFSU1]

 

Originally Posted by Pghfan987

I definitely agree that Brazil and Germany used to be full of fish, now those players in general seem better. Right now, every player from Russia seems terrible. Not sure why. Obviously some of it can be small sample size/ my perception.

i think the russians are tough, theyre very floaty, bluffy, and do not like to give up pots without a fight, ever. i used to think the swedes finland norwegians were tough when they burst onto the scene, but they seem to have regressed and i find them not very good anymore (maybe ive just gotten more used to playing them idk). agree alot with illini post about brazilians and germans being much improved as a whole. Edited By: MarkFSU1 Dec 16th, 2011 at 05:18 AM

[double_kyan]

agree with markfsu on the russians,i really believe its a domino effect for different regions,right now im playn live mtt's at diff local casino's and i noticed that even the casino itself produces different types of action from players,this one casino is full of call any raise guys another one is limp city and another one is tighter than a 99 year old man waitn for aa kk qq these are all within 90 mile radius

so if online poker gets regulated here and no more stars to play just state by state i think the future of poker will change drastically ,meaning that if it becomes regional and lets say things open up on a national or intl level again years down the road i think its possible peeps will say thngs like californians are tough new yorkers are soft etc. :P of course for all of u tht moved out of country u will be able to play them all worldwide out the gate i assume. idk the whole thing is fkd up Edited By: double_kyan Dec 16th, 2011 at 06:07 AM

[Steve Murkle]

I think Im going to start potting all streets verse russians

[random.chu The People's Troll]

brazilians just wanna see flops and turns

WHO CARES IF I HAVE 6BB IN THE BB, IM FEELIN THE K2hh

[matze_widi]

in my experience russians are mostly spewy and often play a 50% vpip, obv there are a few good once like in every country.
germans used to be speway as well but thats cause the game started to got popular like 5 years ago and ppl have been studing a lot since then.
i really think it all come down to your country/regional based mentality.
we germans are -even online- very concoius about how other ppl percieve us and thats why a lot of players studied the game so they dont be full of shit and embarrass themselves

[deadeyed]

 

Originally Posted by matze_widi

in my experience russians are mostly spewy and often play a 50% vpip, obv there are a few good once like in every country.
germans used to be speway as well but thats cause the game started to got popular like 5 years ago and ppl have been studing a lot since then.
i really think it all come down to your country/regional based mentality.
we germans are -even online- very concoius about how other ppl percieve us and thats why a lot of players studied the game so they dont be full of shit and embarrass themselves

i agree with this, Germans are immensly competitive in all aspects of life. They were a bit of a laughing stock a few years ago in the online poker world, but, just like everything else, give them time and they will become very good....now we have Pius Heinz as wsop main winner and Benny Spindler as EPT champion and i'm sure many others.

[smokerock247]

 

Originally Posted by random.chu

brazilians just wanna see flops and turns

WHO CARES IF I HAVE 6BB IN THE BB, IM FEELIN THE K2hh

lol

[Darkowa]

I think europeans are more agressive because they(we) discovered poker when people were allready playing on the internet and thus the game was more agro as a hole. Were as americans know poker from the hellmuth and johnny chan days were you should only play top 10 starting hands and fold to all 3 bets.

Btw, I'm from belgium and we're for sure the worst poker country in western Europe, I challenge anybody to name a poker country west of poland that has fewer named pro's.

[Steve Murkle]

 

Originally Posted by matze_widi

in my experience russians are mostly spewy and often play a 50% vpip, obv there are a few good once like in every country.
germans used to be speway as well but thats cause the game started to got popular like 5 years ago and ppl have been studing a lot since then.
i really think it all come down to your country/regional based mentality.
we germans are -even online- very concoius about how other ppl percieve us and thats why a lot of players studied the game so they dont be full of shit and embarrass themselves

This is kinda what I was going for when I made the OP. General culural identity, behavior and manorisms have a ton to do with how a certain country plays poker in general

[matze_widi]

 

Originally Posted by Darkowa

Btw, I'm from belgium and we're for sure the worst poker country in western Europe, I challenge anybody to name a poker country west of poland that has fewer named pro's.

y but obv u guys dont have a whole lot of citizen so there cant be that much regs with just 10milsky ppl living there

[winwin07]

I agree that its mostly poker upbringing. Americans seem to always start with a "tight is right" mentality. I'd venture to guess that a large number of us started off by reading Harrington on Holdem (or something similar). Even though most of us have far surpassed the strategies our fundamentals are still largely built around an old school style of poker thinking. Just imagine what poker would look like to you if you never had this foundation but instead first approached the game from a game theory perspective. Its a radically different launching pad that is going to result in a totally different playing style.

Just think of the differences in basketball playing style between a kid from the Bronx and rural Indiana. Or in baseball between a Cali kid and Japanese kid.

Its really the beauty of all games and sports how they evolve when they spread to new places.

[RedIceRap Moderator]

agree with the most points mentioned. still think germans, brazilians, greek and russians (def the worst) all suck. the most important point was, i personally cant talk about hands with anybody, since in germany a good player is very hard to find. i learned by just doing for the most part and reading a lot of stuff of course, going broke a lot of times, etc. and also agree with what gags said, i sometimes also go too crazy and play hands i shouldt play just because i have position and think everybody else on the table is a fish. sometimes it works, sometimes im doing smth stupid and bust. hate playing abc, even if i know i should do it for the most part. think canadians are def the best players overall. maybe players from the USA are the best, but if u compare the ratio between good/bad player from the usa and canada, cananda def wins imo.

[double_kyan]

only way to become better in poker is too avoid abc once u learn abc ....... imo of course

usa doesnt get to choose anymore we are being dictated

[Pghfan987]

LOL I play nitty and Russians always give me their stacks, maybe that's why I think they are fish.

In Soviet Russia, fish catch you!

Of course when you look at the best HSMTT regs there are a bunch of people from Canada who moved from the US.

[rhubarb5]

Seriously this is the thread I should have started.
This is easy, the greeks ARE shit at poker, and its got to do with their culture re finances etc.
just ask the rest of europe - they donked their whole economy, so how else is a poor greek boy to survive..... I know I'll just win at poker, how hard can it be?
and don't laugh you romanians, you're next on my list of 'countries to avoid/take advantage of on the virtual felt'

[Darkowa]

 

Originally Posted by matze_widi

y but obv u guys dont have a whole lot of citizen so there cant be that much regs with just 10milsky ppl living there

True but holland doesn't have that much more relative to Europe and they have boatload of good players.

Anyway, I know some greek players and they're pretty good, I think every country has their donks.

[Adam Emperor]

 

Originally Posted by rhubarb5

This is easy, the greeks ARE shit at poker, and its got to do with their culture re finances etc.

Oh, come now

[LiquidSw0rd]

 

Originally Posted by rhubarb5

This is easy, the greeks ARE shit at poker, and its got to do with their culture re finances etc.

how can you talk about greek's culture in a negative way ?! greek culture is amazingly rich, ancient and beautiful. now look at you aussie.

[rhubarb5]

with respect emporer Adam and liquidsword
I'm talking about how they've run their economy - or not run it!
Ask any of your greek friends about doing business "on the farsi" .
admittedly I've reached into my quiver and drawn a long bow to link greek players and their traditional way of doing business as a way to describe their playing style, but lets face it how many start quoting socrates when they hit their gutshot on the river to sink my AAA coz as far as I know axaaxaxaxa isn't from the big Soc!
and real Australian culture goes back 60,000 years and it too is rich ancient and beautiful.
in summary 1 + 1 = about 3 and a bit
thank you
(played against 5 Brits today in a $8 12k gtd, everyone of them a greek in disguise... hehe)

[LiquidSw0rd]

-finances are suffering in a lot of different coutries. i really doubt it has to do with their people's poker skills honestly.

-you are speaking about Australia's aboriginal culture, not australian culture. its more like beer-barbecue.

-blame the clowns that the people elect, not the ppl.

[Adam Emperor]

 

Originally Posted by LiquidSw0rd

-blame the clowns that the people elect, not the ppl.

This... I know that much of the US right now is pretty opposed to a great number of the current political leaders - on both sides of the aisle. What politicians do is not necessarily in line with the culture of a country - it often has a lot more to do with what they think is best for themselves in the short term. I'm sure it's been the same or even worse in Greece. Just because certain people in power act irresponsibly doesn't mean that the normal people are irresponsible. Being somehow correlated with the way people play poker seems like a pretty big stretch to me

[ApesAreFun Moderator/Euro Donk]

 

Originally Posted by random.chu

brazilians just wanna see flops and turns

WHO CARES IF I HAVE 6BB IN THE BB, IM FEELIN THE K2hh

Pessagnos itt.

[rhubarb5]

whoa people please .... tongue firmly in cheek! "1 + 1 = about 3 and a bit"
obv talking aboriginal culture hence "real"australian culture.
beer and barbecues is like saying all swiss are watchmakers!!!
I'm looking forward to playing people from Papua New Guinea or some hardcore felt busters from Chad or Borneo.... would someone from Borneo play conservative tight? discuss
I'm a clown and I voted for don Quixote
thank you

I'm not looking to hassle the greeks but just stumbled upon this in my paper

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...669474?page=12

nothing to do with how they play but it's a bit funny

I'm not a clown and I voted for love, peace, humanity and poker.
thank you

[LiquidSw0rd]

most aborigines are living totally isolated from australian society and clearly want to maintain their native identity as distinct from becoming 'Australians'. therefor their culture is not your culture.