Hey p5ers,

My good friend Betudontbet has been on a huge tear recently, its almost every day that he wins a tourney. In fact, he has the number 1 sliding plb score in the world right now. But he's getting no respect. Some people might not like him cause he says goofy shit in the chatbox at times, but if you knew the guy you'd realize its just funny. He just doesn't care.... He's one of the crustiest, smartest, funniest, most original guys I ever met - he also has a huge heart and would give anything to a friend who needed it. And of all the noobs I met who lived in Austin, he was the only one I met that I knew had "it". I'm not taking any credit for his success, I definitely brought him into the tourney game cause he's a cash game player primarily but he already had a sick poker mind. Anyway, enough about his personal traits I'm gonna list the reasons why he should be ranked higher.

1.) http://www.pokertableratings.com/sta...ch/Betudontbet

I'd be willing to bet 3/4 of the guys in the top 10 couldn't beat 2/4 cash. This dude crushes up to 5/10 hu and 6 max. Make sure to click on just holdem cause he is a PLO degen and if he didn't think that he could get away with playing 90+ percent of hands at a 6 max table he'd actually be good at PLO. Dude is up 80 buy ins at 5/10 with a bb/100 of 5 and up infinite buy ins at 1/2 over 100k hands with a 7 bb/100 winrate.


2.) He also beats sngs, which most mtt players don't either. Everyone knows that MTTs are the easiest form of poker to win at, and he crushes the 2 forms of poker that are harder to beat.

3.) He probably doesn't care/want to be number 1. And would be a very funny representative of the game. Guy kind of belongs in the movie Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and might not be the "ambassador" that says the politically correct or right thing all the time but he speaks whatever is on his mind always and is an interesting guy who knows alot about many things (and if he doesn't he'll pretend he does).

4.) He's got the number 1 sliding plb ffs. Pro Polls, while I like the idea behind them, are kind of popularity contests and thus a little bit invalid.

edit - This is nothing against anyone else in the top 10, I'm just saying David's a bad mofo.

he's also cute

crusty sounds like him alright

im still not sure how we are suposed to do that pro poll exactly... What are the exact criterias we should take in account? Think its really not clear... I mean for example best players overall/over time or best recent results/crushing? I did more of the first category so far, not taking all that much in account recent results, just trying to judge quality of players from the info I have and obv not being influenced thro some negative history i might have with some regs...
How are we suposed to do that pro poll and how are you doing it effectively?

Also wanna add that I dont really care how much your friend wins at cash game... Dont see why you are bringing this up.
That being said I allways knew that and I see it in his game alot, a game i rspect a lot anyway, even if he didnt bink that huge turbo. Btw grats on that bet, glad some one really good won that:)

I disagree... I think those things all determine how good he is overall at NLHE poker and therefore tournament poker. I actually am a little surprised that people would think that those other things are irrelevant. Him being able to beat high stakes cash means he can hand read and plays post-flop better than most tourney players. Beating sngs suggests an understanding of push/fold and bubble situations on a higher level than many tournament regs. The pro poll should be there so that skill is acknowledged, all of those things point to an elite level of skill.

I think the pro poll is really subjective and kind of a pain in the ass to be honest. What it usually ends up being is just mirroring whoever has the most plb points but w/ a delay. Even though I like the idea in theory.

And... I'm obviously biased cause one of my best friends and was semi-responsible for getting him into MTTs. But can honestly say he does some things better than I do. Just wanted him to get recognition cause he's got a ton of grind and I'd crossbook him vs a ton of mtt regs. He's a bit of a spazzmonkey though, but thats a necessary requirement in hsmtts.

Also, I'm bringing it up cause he doesn't care much either way and I'd like to see him at the top.

 

Originally Posted by flashdisastr

im still not sure how we are suposed to do that pro poll exactly... What are the exact criterias we should take in account? Think its really not clear... I mean for example best players overall/over time or best recent results/crushing? I did more of the first category so far, not taking all that much in account recent results, just trying to judge quality of players from the info I have and obv not being influenced thro some negative history i might have with some regs...
How are we suposed to do that pro poll and how are you doing it effectively?

Also wanna add that I dont really care how much your friend wins at cash game... Dont see why you are bringing this up.
That being said I allways knew that and I see it in his game alot, a game i rspect a lot anyway, even if he didnt bink that huge turbo. Btw grats on that bet, glad some one really good won that:)

Man, tbh I don't really know. Its v difficult when alot of the guys who i consider to be the best arent even actively playing online and black friday changed teh dynamics of everything. I personally think flush entity plays v well and is deserving of the number 1 spot but I have a hard time determining an objective way to use my pro poll as well. Its just hard to rate so many people with similar skill sets above or below one another. I tried doing mine the other day and got rly frustrated. Firstly, there were a number of people with high scores who I had little to no history with and secondly alot of the guys whove destroyed over years and years have almost no plb points. So man, I have no idea.... I wouldn't mind if the pro poll had alot less weight tbh, even though its worked in my favor over the years because I was active on the forums.

 

Originally Posted by wackyJaxon

Apes, as someone that makes his living playing mixed cash games, I am first to admit I have a bit to learn to dominate tournaments. Although I enjoy tournaments, I don't have the stamina for them to play them regularly. There are good cash players that suck at tournaments, and many tournament players that suck at cash. I see your point that if someone is good at both it means something, however, I don't think that it should count towards someone's opinion when voting since the voting is strictly on who is the best online tournament player. Just my 2 cents.

I imagine most good cash game players who suck at tournaments do very well in the deepstacked parts of tourneys and then are clueless how to play with 10-40 bbs... Nevertheless, it says something about his post-flop skill which is applicable to tournaments. I think we may just have to agree to disagree here. Almost everyone who plays poker professionally agrees that there is more skill in cash games than tournaments and that it would be much easier to teach someone beating 10/20 nl how to beat tourneys than it would to teach someone beating tourneys to beat 10/20 nl. I don't want to get into that debate though or any debate for that matter. I'm tired. I believe beating all forms of nlhe unquestionably says something about his overall skill, combined with his resent tear.

What other factors should go into pro polls? I do suppose that longevity should be a factor, which he doesn't really have. So thats fair enough. For instance, I think there are a few players who just are the 10-15 best mtt players in the world and most of them aren't in the top 50 right now. Anyway, I actually don't care all that much. And, I like that pro polls stay around so that people remember those that have been crushing for years rather than some random kid on a tear being number 1.

BTW, I think flush-entity is super deserving of number 1. I like his game, his consistency, and generally how he handles himself.... Not saying anything bad about anyone. Mainly just letting people know that weavel is not just some flash-in-the-pan and will be crushing for a long time.

i think that the whole pro-poll is just a sort of broken system...not enough people change their pro polls often enough. and those who do, just pick their friends

not sure of a solution, but i've def felt like this for a while

 

Originally Posted by apestyles

I disagree... I think those things all determine how good he is overall at NLHE poker and therefore tournament poker. I actually am a little surprised that people would think that those other things are irrelevant. Him being able to beat high stakes cash means he can hand read and plays post-flop better than most tourney players. Beating sngs suggests an understanding of push/fold and bubble situations on a higher level than many tournament regs. The pro poll should be there so that skill is acknowledged, all of those things point to an elite level of skill.

I think the pro poll is really subjective and kind of a pain in the ass to be honest. What it usually ends up being is just mirroring whoever has the most plb points but w/ a delay. Even though I like the idea in theory.

And... I'm obviously biased cause one of my best friends and was semi-responsible for getting him into MTTs. But can honestly say he does some things better than I do. Just wanted him to get recognition cause he's got a ton of grind and I'd crossbook him vs a ton of mtt regs. He's a bit of a spazzmonkey though, but thats a necessary requirement in hsmtts.

Also, I'm bringing it up cause he doesn't care much either way and I'd like to see him at the top.

just wanted to ad that I agree with you that cash game is the skillier part of poker, and that he need to have a really good "poker mind" to beat thes stakes he is playing. Deep postflop play is the part of the game I respect the most so I will prob allways be biased in favor of good post flop players compared to good math/push fold/ turbo type of players. That being said I think you (as a very very respected player and active forum member) coming here and making publicity for him is just not fair cause maybe there are other players you dont know who crush as well as he does (cashgames or just deep stack mtts, sngs whatever...). So yeah I think its just not fair in regards to other players....
I mean if he now was like top 5 (does the poll even play inside top 10? ) and it would be a close battle I would see why you would make this but now just saying to verybody to put him in first place in the poll because he crushes cashgames seams bit... idk...
Any way would be nice to clear up once for good how everybody should vote in that poll or even to change it, maybe create a permanent treat about it and make somthing more seriously over time....
That being said I have to admit that i didnt even class him at all in my poll... (thing I will obv correct, but i think its because he was absent for a bucnh of time due to black friday and i didnt caught up...).
But I mean this system seams a bit too dreamy imo, I would really enjoy making a serious one and take a bit of my time and thoughts to make a clear well elaborated poll but whats the use of it if others arent doing it properly either. Feel like before sb is asked to participate he should be explained first HOW to procede... just make it more clear!

Def 1 of the best!

no disrespect intended but if it wasnt for his tcoop win which is $1561 of his plb points, he wouldnt be considered in the top 10, 1 bink probably doesnt justify it in the pro poller voters eyes. Hes obv good and does really well but might need to continue it on for the voting to change IMO.

Hey, guys. I wanted to come in here and address how the Pro Poll works. If a pollster doesn't edit their Rankings for four weeks straight, their Pro Poll doesn't count anymore and their privileges are disabled.

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

i think that the whole pro-poll is just a sort of broken system...not enough people change their pro polls often enough. and those who do, just pick their friends

not sure of a solution, but i've def felt like this for a while

Thanks for the feedback, Gags. We've recently added about 20 new poker pros to the Pro Poll, each of whom has over 4,000 PLB points on PocketFives, so we've tried hard to get some "fresh blood" and encourage people to vote for who they genuinely think are the top players around. You're right that it is a little bit of a popularity contest, but by the same token, the Pro Poll is only one-third of a person's total ranking. We'll continue to fine-tune the system as we go, though, so I do appreciate you speaking out.

 

Originally Posted by Ahurazor

no disrespect intended but if it wasnt for his tcoop win which is $1561 of his plb points, he wouldnt be considered in the top 10, 1 bink probably doesnt justify it in the pro poller voters eyes. Hes obv good and does really well but might need to continue it on for the voting to change IMO.

eh? 47 FT's in the last three months, 20 top three finishes including 8 outright wins, think there might be a bit of consistency there?

 

Originally Posted by Cookymonster198

eh? 47 FT's in the last three months, 20 top three finishes including 8 outright wins, think there might be a bit of consistency there?

general consistency, then weighting it vs the other current top 10s is different, he obviously crushes souls never did i ever deny it, but Top 10 is no easy feat. Meh simple opinion Lets not get emotional or defensive about it.

 

Originally Posted by weavel

i dont even fill out a pro poll...i dont think? lol its fun to be the center of attention for a minute guys dont stop bring on the hate and love! <3 ape and jd. guess i better win some 44 turbros today because its a day.

not sure where there was any hate in any of the responses...