very well said..... i hate the h4h every pay jump

Major cosign here. It's seriously a joke how many times this had been asked for yet nothing has been done. Like wtf

+1 If you build it they will come

this h4h issues has been brought so many times and I've never even seen it addressed. It's worse in the merge 100k where its h4h down to the last 20-30 ppl. PLEASE DO SOMETHING!

also i forgot to address the payout %'s issue. def fix this plz. not only are the top 3 or so spots pretty top heavy but also the mincashes are often wayyyyyyy to small and pay way too many ppl. pretty plz fix the h4h issue and do something with the payouts merge

Regarding the top heavy amounts, I like it and hope they keep it. The whole purpose of playing mtts is to ship them. You don't play for third.

I agree that too many spots are paid out tho. IMO, just eliminate all the meaningless min cashes and use that money to pay more to the final table. Also, give players the ability to chop. Then they can work out the inequities of the payouts themselves if they want.

I remember all the threads about stars payouts, that first didn't get enough. And now ppl are complaining that first gets too much. That's just ridiculous. Play to win.

And yes, for the love of God, please fix the hand for hand issue. Or if you can't do that, then stop the tournament clock as soon as the first table finishes. Or add more time to the levels as you get deeper as Stars and Tilt did and as they do at the WSOP.

Umm please explain how a top heavy payout schedule benefits a recreational player? If competant reg>rec player then shouldn't the reg be getting more 1st places than the rec player?

+1

There are so many obvious quirks and fuckups with the tournaments on this site that would be quickly fixed by a site that was halfway competent.

The double rebuy problem is inexcusable. It's such an obvious flaw in their software, but they can't be bothered to fix it. (When is the last time they updated their software anyway? This is the only site I've ever played on that doesn't update their software somewhat regularly. Do they have programmers on staff? I bet they don't. They probably had their software built for them and then just threw it out there with no intention of maintaining or improving it whatsoever.)

The payout structure is a joke. Not that I'm good (not even top 100 on OPR fwiw), but someone who makes as many deep runs as I do shouldn't be busting his account (my current balance is $32 lol) because he ran bad at a couple of final tables.

Because the payout structure is so absurdly skewed toward 1st and 2nd (and the lame ass blind structure makes these tourneys play so shallow late), I often find myself forced to gamble and spew deep in tourneys when I do still have chips. (With this in mind, last week I tried a risky bluff while still six handed with a good stack...whoops...http://www.pocketfives.com/tournament/863126/. I would have never picked this spot against this drooling tard of a player if I thought there was enough play to find a better spot...or if finishing 4th or 5th rather than 6th actually made a damn bit of difference. He ended up finishing 1st obviously...)

Hand for hand is absurd. It drags on and on and on.

I get that hand for hand is supposed to eliminate stalling, but hand for hand on this site is even more annoying than the retard with half a big blind rolling down his entire timebank to try and mincash. (Incidentally, wouldn't it be easier to just revoke the timebank of anyone who has less than 10 big blinds?)

If there were actual competition, this site wouldn't even exist iyam.

 

Originally Posted by get-raised21

also i forgot to address the payout %'s issue. def fix this plz. not only are the top 3 or so spots pretty top heavy but also the mincashes are often wayyyyyyy to small and pay way too many ppl. pretty plz fix the h4h issue and do something with the payouts merge

IT IS WHAT IT IS!
its not the top 3 its the top 2 ,its top 2 theory when u play merge, u cannot play for top 3. a lot of times 3rd and 4th aren't but a hop skip difference.the h4h does take awhille at times but its their way of fairness so i just deal with that .When it comes to rebuys i just know this, don't go all in with under a minute too play unless ur strong,plain and simple. i hate the thinning of payouts on a $3-re-buy 5k gtd, but i have too aim for 1st no matter what ,one glory about top two is that its for the championship and top two get paid the most.

Guys,
Merge is doing something actively to address this and all tournament related issues;
I do not have a timeline yet, but basically it is being taken very seriously.

Crappy answer I know, and I'm can't state anything more definite right now-
but Merge is aware of the numerous issues and setting up a 'process' to fully deal with them.

Once this process is in place, I will be able to get more of a definite time line/details;

just a couple of quick points:
1. Updates are happening and Merge does have full teams of programmers on staff
2. The point about competition is entirely valid, ultimately if changes aren't made, then sites like Hero won't be competitive for the long run - and I'm aware of that as well- as well as the network.

On a Hero only side, I hope that most of our internal updates/revisions will be completed by mid-September, then we can take a more active role in providing more detailed feedback and solutions for the network rather than simply forwarding on a number of player responses. My own staff have complied the list already of tournament issues, but we still need to give our own recommendations of what is appropriate and once that is done, I'd also like to share that with the community.

Again, not a great response I know, and it stems from Hero being a partner site rather the network itself, but just know that the emails you are sending are not going into some black hole or are forgotten about, but are taken seriously. I'm sure when the final process is set-up for the resolution of these issues, we will be able to give you some significantly more info/details.

Please don't think I don't know this is a pretty bs sounding reply, I am helping out to establish part of the resolution process, but we're really aren't there yet and there isn't much more I can write on it for now. Merge in fact may have more progress that I'm aware of on these issues and I will follow up on this on Monday further with a direct call.

I know this looks bad, after all how freaking hard can it be to make these changes, but I think the issue more is setting up a process where these issues can be resolved/revised in a structured on going way. I am being sincere with this response even as it seems pretty bs.

Dave Jung
hero poker CEO

Triton, I kinda get what you are saying re: that gambling late/deep/at the ft becomes necessary/+ev when you examine the blind schedule and the payouts.

That said, I think the 33r is one of the best structured daily mtts they offer and if you do make it to final three or so the structure does improve quite a bit. (Thus even further incenting you to gamble a bit).

Structure could also be improved if they increased the length of the levels deep in the mtt where hand for hand is eating up the clock and ppl in general are taking longer to make decisions on each street. BTW-I do not make this suggestion in place of fixing the H4H-both changes need to be made to improve the quality of the structure.

Yet, I kind of stick to my belief that 1st and 2nd should be paid a lot more. On merge with the small field sizes the idea is to ship ship ship. This would be more possible on a reg basis is the problems with the structure was fixed. Or as I've said, just give us the ability to chop and the let the players sort it out.

IMO, the feeling of shiping the thing and feeling like you should have gotten more is far worse than finishing 4th and feeling like you got jipped.

Keep the top heavy payouts. Get rid of the meaningless min cashes and redistribute that to the final table to even out the payouts a bit.

With all the above changes I think you start having pretty decent mtt experience.

Oh and one more point. I sympathize iwth your br problems. In the new reality since BF, its def -ev to play mtts properly bankrolled. When I hit a good score I wanna take a good chunk off to protect myself but that makes it harder for me to play the higher limits. So its that constant catch22.

Dave,

I certainly appreciate the manner in which you and some of your cohorts (ie rizen, rpmseth) have communicated with the community. You obviously learned from the mistakes that FTP, et al, made in the past and you should be commended.

Commenting on your previous post, however, I must say that not only does it sound like bs, but, it is bs.

Don't confuse this with me saying its entirely your fault. By your description, its pretty clear that there is simply incompetance at the network level. I'm sure if there was a way for you to fix this on your own, we wouldn't be experiencing the delays that we have.

That said, those at Merge need to step up and get the job done. If a process needs to be created, then create the damn process. What's so hard about that? Sounds like those who run Merge are either preoccupied, don't care, or are just completely unorganized. And, as iwth most things in life, I'm assuming its a combination of all three.

GL

David,

Thanks for the reply. Even though I'm not on hero I appreciate all the work you do.

The only complaints I really have are regarding the tournaments, which is basically all I play. The biggest issues imo are how the tournaments are paying out (pay jumps are every 10 spots, even though tables are 9 and 6 handed) and just how top heavy they are. You are formerly associated with stars, well, I would kill for a structure that pays out similiar to how Stars did for its tournaments.

Also, the H4H. Like someone else said, stop the clock or eliminate it all together until the final table. It's absurd to have it kick in 3 spots from a min cash and every single pay jump.

Anyone else noticed a weird thing with hand histories where sometimes if there's a side pot the HH will only show the original all-in's cards. Also you sometimes have to click around where the cards are to reveal a scroll bar so you can scroll down and see a given player's cards. WOuld be awesome if they had a graphical hand replayer, but if not they should at least get the HHs to work right.

Anyway I really hope that things improve at the Merge Network. They have a lot of potential, but their organizational problems are a huge impediment to meeting that potential. Im willing to give them some leeway with trying to adjust to a post-BF world, but the fact that 4 months on they don't seem to be making much progress is disappointing. I don't mean to tar Rizen or David with this brush, as I get the sense these problems are largely out of their control. I do hope they are using their voices within the Merge Network to advocate for better service and a better product.

its probably a tough operation all the skins on one network

Hate to pile on, but why does the WPT Locked on Championship have to break 5 minutes later than all the other MTTs? Yet another annoying quirk that should be easily fixed. Sigh.