because its ridiculous to keep trying to stop discussions on the issue, period and if you really think Swish is one of the good guys here, thats your opinion. the facts are starting to come out and if people draw their own conclusions about Swish and its not all rainbows and smiles, thats their OPINION.

but what tyson did, is basically stating that his stance on Swish is fact, and if you dont agree its a ban. search for tysons posts in this thread, and you'll see what im saying.

thats not how rational people operate.
anyways, let us continue our discussions in peace and stop it already with threats of bans, i mean seriously bro?

i think its unfair to libel someones name in something as set as stone as the internet without proof...... u do understand that is why slander/libel laws exist right.... b/c proof is needed to spout off opinions that diminish someone's name.

Libel is a false, malicious statement published in mainstream media (i.e. on the internet, in a magazine, etc.). (from wiki)

 

Originally Posted by bwalz

Tyson's standpoint itt & way of communicating it (coming from a mod) concerns me far more than anything else under discussion itt so far fwiw. I has no opinion on any of the debate & if I did I'd keep it to myself anyway based on overall circumstance.

thank you.

and poker panda,
trust me nobody has done anything close to libel or slander. but keep derailing the thread. we have a whole team of people already doing that, including a mod, so this is gonna be an uphill battle for all the honest hard working MERGE grinders.

good luck fellas, we apparently need it

 

Originally Posted by ktx49

your ridiculous.
why are you still trying to prevent discussions on this issue? i dont understand why you kept discounting all the points i raised months ago about the entire situation and now that a few reputable players are on the bandwagon and backing up the math, its a different story??
nice try, i know that you will be hurt financially by any fiascos on merge, especially in hsmtts, but this is just taking it too far....how about this accusation:
you are STRAIGHT UP abusing your powers as a mod with threats of bans in a discussion that needs to take place.

if people want to add nothing to thread and continue to insult swish and his mother, i agree, that is wrong and taking it too far....but at this point accusations are ABSOLUTELY necessary and for some strange reason, you continue trying to sweep this entire issue under the rug. why??

you suddenly think threatening people with bans when its apparent swish is DIRTY by association, at the very least, is a joke. he knew what was going on, and he didnt care to say anything or provide us with any information. he continues to say we should just contact merge, but we have already done that and merge has no desire to do anything about it; i doubt they have the security resources to do it anyway but thats another issue.

since 2+2 is down, and merge is not willing or able to do anything about it, THIS IS THE ONLY COURSE OF ACTION FOR LEGITIMATE PLAYERS WHO GRIND ON MERGE.

i will not sit by and let someone continue to do this to the community, and yes, i am STRAIGHT UP questioning your motives in this thread, from the very beginning. let us discuss this and if you arent interested or think nothing shady is occuring, stop posting in here. wackyjax can mod this thread just fine without you.

and i know for a fact that there is other people with information on this issue who definitely are scared to say something because of the amount of money involved.....

i continue to harp on the issue of the tickets because im a logical person and i know for a fact that there is something going on here with the tickets....that DOES NOT mean i think they are fake or being printed from thin air....

but just ask yourself, even if the tickets are legit, why would the backer offer someone such a stupid deal when he could make much more money himself by giving lesser deals. its like bargaining over the price of a car, and the car salesman immediately throws out his bottom line offer to the purchaser. it doesnt make sense, thats not how proper business works.

the way the people who are in the know about this are acting, makes it obvious that this is not a simple account sharing/MAing issue. they are not scared to say something because of MAing, they are scared because you are talking about half a million + of money that is obviously tied to some really shady dealings. you guys keep laughing and scoffing at the guy who mentioned the possibility of a money laundering operation...but i'm telling you this could very well be the source of these tickets.

i urge the people who know whats going on to figure out a way to get this information out to the community.

So KTX what is the deal? Swish said 40% he gets with no make-up. How is that unfair. The guy is a stud player. Everyone talks about all these supposebly deals but yet we have no truth to it. All these players that were named, you really think they have the same deal, lol.

Amce is just retarded with his theorys, his newest one is that Merge will be shut down, he has inside information on this, lol.

The ticket issue was squashed months ago with MERGE reps, because I was one of the ones that P.M. the CEO hero, and carbon. They both stated they are paid for when there used. You honestly think this hasnt been looked at through merge.

I've never played on feltstar and I never will, not becasue of this, but because carbon does everything they said they would with bonus's etc..

As for Swish, I think he's very cocky and acts like a jerk, but the dude can play. Who wouldnt want to back him.

libel schmibel

only issue i see from reading this thread is account sharing. don't know why you think it's a bad idea to out the people you know are sharing accounts chad. Maybe you don't want to publicly out your buds here, but i hope you at least notify merge of the "account sharing". if the tickets are really accounted for then case closed. The 700k in losses seems high but I would imagine it doesn't account for rakeback which can be at a rate anywhere from 0-100%. My opinion is that the affiliate has all these paid for tickets given to them which were supposed to be given away to attract new players and they have just found a more profitable way of dishing them out.

 

Originally Posted by ktx49

i think your being extremely naive and im not trying to be rude or condescending. i mean it sincerely, if you look at the world like this your gonna have a lot of people taking advantage of you.

the problem i have is that from the get go, the deal didnt sit well with me and a lot of people who know how business works, both in and out of poker. there is no reason to give someone such a good deal, he would have taken a much lesser deal all the same and backer could make out with alot more profit himself....

then the information of about dozens of other accounts or whatever comes out, and people add up the numbers and do the math to realize that this deal isn't even profitable for the backer, by a very wide margin.
then you look at the account sharing issue and the fact that multiple people in the know are vaguely providing information that these accounts are being shared not to gain an edge on the competition, but instead to simply put in as much possible volume without regards to player quality or losses...and you have to next realize that the backer would be aware of this and from what ive discerned, is actually encouraging this to take place on his horse accounts.

this leads to one conclusion: that the backer is not making his money by backing profitable winning players, but instead from the accounts playing and cashing as much as possible. this is why he gives them no makeup deals....because hes making the same profit regardless if they are actually winning, if that makes sense.

if you can tell me how this would work with legitimate tickets, im all ears. so far ive seen two suggestions, the first being the money laundering or whatever and the second being some affiliate based motive where hes making money from the rake.

i find the latter hard to believe, but in the interest of DISCUSSION(caugh tyson caugh) i figured id throw out whats been said so far. lets keep it going and stop with the bickering and the back and forth shit....this is a serious threat to the integrity of the games on merge and we need to take it serious until we know all the facts.

I'm glad we can talk like adults on this KTx.

So far we know that swish has no make-up, the others no clue. And the losses are not correct posted by someone, because I sharkscoped them and posted the 5 I did real quick, mainly because I can care less who's winning or losing, I worry more about myself.

If you put what the affiliate makes in rake-off these players those numbers are insane. Because by the affiliate page they make up to 50% and probably even more.

Also, there saying there unlimited, swish never said that one time that I could find, and if I had the funds to back him, I would, because he's gonna win.

My logic on the backing deal is: If you give them money, they can dump it, loose it in the casino or not play the game you asked them to play.

Again I was very upset about this on 2+2 and contacted Merge, and also Carbon reps and PM the CEO of Merge, and all said how they work and I was fine with it. So the ticket thing is a dead horse with me.

My issue is the MAing and I asked merge security to look into it over the weekend. So I have not received and answer just and automated email about it. The last time I did this I received answers within 48 hours or so.

 

Originally Posted by ktx49

because its ridiculous to keep trying to stop discussions on the issue, period and if you really think Swish is one of the good guys here, thats your opinion. the facts are starting to come out and if people draw their own conclusions about Swish and its not all rainbows and smiles, thats their OPINION.

but what tyson did, is basically stating that his stance on Swish is fact, and if you dont agree its a ban. search for tysons posts in this thread, and you'll see what im saying.

thats not how rational people operate.
anyways, let us continue our discussions in peace and stop it already with threats of bans, i mean seriously bro?

Actually he said if your gonna call him a cheat and names you will be banned.

AMEC i got ur nasty PM u dirtbag, u sure havnt denied anything so as far as im concerned i think its a possibility that u are a reverse level , and maybe sir u are the one of many losing ticket accts

i totally agree with tyson u cant keep calling a person a cheater with no evidence at all

its also chicken shit to do so, especially when he comes in here and talks about this stuff

you know what kavilla u called me a cheater at the tables and said some off the wall stuff and i was fkn furious when u slandered me,i even had [probably one of ur scum kronies] approach me at a tbl about cheating

and here i am using freerolls and penny slots to rebuild and get back to cashouts

so u dude have no credibility in the accusation dept. its a bunch of delusional rambling with no substantiate foundation

and i can imagine the anger swish felt when u and others ran ur mouth like a bunch of morons

accusations of cheating can be very annoying and bothersome and its a chicken shit move by some of imo

this dude is coming on this thread and he talks ,where is the respect for that?

when peeps learn to look from the other side of the fence instead of their own the world will be much simpler!

if anything start screamn for some of these other guys to get on here,maybe they dont like the fact they havnt been winning and dont want to talk

 

Originally Posted by mttgrinder90

I'm glad we can talk like adults on this KTx.

So far we know that swish has no make-up, the others no clue. And the losses are not correct posted by someone, because I sharkscoped them and posted the 5 I did real quick, mainly because I can care less who's winning or losing, I worry more about myself.

If you put what the affiliate makes in rake-off these players those numbers are insane. Because by the affiliate page they make up to 50% and probably even more.

Also, there saying there unlimited, swish never said that one time that I could find, and if I had the funds to back him, I would, because he's gonna win.

My logic on the backing deal is: If you give them money, they can dump it, loose it in the casino or not play the game you asked them to play.

Again I was very upset about this on 2+2 and contacted Merge, and also Carbon reps and PM the CEO of Merge, and all said how they work and I was fine with it. So the ticket thing is a dead horse with me.

My issue is the MAing and I asked merge security to look into it over the weekend. So I have not received and answer just and automated email about it. The last time I did this I received answers within 48 hours or so.

Actually he said if your gonna call him a cheat and names you will be banned.

just because a player is profitable on ss, doesnt mean they have made money for the backer

 

Originally Posted by mttgrinder90

But like I said we have no idea. And if the backer is an affiliate, he is makeing crazy money off the rake.

yah but its rake from their own funds,its a double whammy if players are break even or better thts for sure

 

Originally Posted by icufish

ktx you are way over the line. Tyson looks for logic and proof which is not only acceptable but should be the standard in these types of threads. To say he has his own motives and to question him as if he is trying to hide something is absolutely ridiculous.

As far as SirSwish goes, tbh, i don't care for his overall tone. I think that sometimes his sense of humor is amazingly funny and other times out of place and awkward. That said Tyson and Wacky are on point when they wont allow more baseless accusations. Nobody should be calling anybody a cheater without proof.

If it were up to me your P5's account would be banned. I don't think you are adding to this in a productive way. And you've continued to prove your inability to discuss something using logic and facts.

word

I want to clear up a few things in this thread.

1) I have always been against the TOS violation and especially the account sharing. However, as I said a long time ago and continue to say now, more evidence is needed about the account sharing. It's unlikely Merge security will do something on their own, so it's necessary to provide evidence of what you know.

2) I personally do not believe swish is cheating/scamming. I do not think that anyone that has a ticket account is a cheater/scammer. However, if those people are sharing their account with other people, then I have a problem. But my point about swish is people need to stop making swish the figurehead. Either post specific evidence that swish is a cheater or start calling all ticket account holders a cheater. So, if you want to call swish a cheater for playing on a ticket account, then start calling all of these guys cheaters.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/theczar19/
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/bigdshaggyj/
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/yanniyankievich/
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/sirswish6/
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/rfohrenbach/
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/maxxscam/

And the other 15 or so players. If you want to call all of those people cheaters/scammers, go ahead. But stop singling swish out since the only thing he's done differently than these people is respond to posts.

3) This is my problem with the ticket accounts:

 

Originally Posted by melano

it doesn't matter who else is playing on the account theres a gigantic difference btw theczar? and some random and you knowing when the random is playing and when hes not is pretty disgusting.

The difference between the sickos playing these accounts and the fishsticks they get to play for them appears to be pretty significant based on my personal experience playing against them.

I don't get the whole argument that chad made about it being worse on stars. It's worse on merge. On stars you run into the same people every 20, 50, 100 mtts? On merge, you see these same accounts multiple times per day. Attempting to play against them when you dont know which personality is going to be playing is, in my opinion, cheating/scamming/stealing equity from other players on Merge. But it's ACCOUNT SHARING that's the issue, not the use of tickets.

4) I play on Hero. I only run a stable on Merge because of my interactions with the Hero CEO. I trust him. The Hero CEO has said the money is in the prizepools. Based on his post on 2p2, I'm not concerned about the money being in the prizepool.

5) The money calculations in this thread are still incorrect. Nobody has accounted for the stakeback or rakeback. I think the backer is definitely down money, but not as much as posted here.

6) I don't understand why it's a no makeup deal. If account sharing is going on, you would think a normal backer would care, so if it's actually happening, not sure why it hasn't been cracked down on. So the terms of the deal are definitely fishy. It does concern me. However, I don't think it's going to bankrupt Merge. So if the money is in the prizepool and these accounts won't bring down the network, for all intents and purposes, the use of the ticket accounts does not affect my bottom line.

Account sharing does affect my bottom line, which is why I continue to complain about that and ask for people to provide evidence so something can be done.

 

Originally Posted by kevmode

Tyson all those players u listed are sickos and most likely the best out of the 20 imo. Czar, Yanni etc.. sickos. Is there a reason you listed those names instead of the other 15? How come no one the players you listed have spoke out in this thread? I believe a lot of the people in this thread would like others to come in talk about the situation at Felt stars.

I don't know the other 15. Some may have their names in their P5s profile, but I don't think so.

 

Originally Posted by mttgrinder90

As for Swish, I think he's very cocky and acts like a jerk, but the dude can play. Who wouldnt want to back him.

Swish has made his backer a whopping zero dollars. At least he hasn't lost, which every single other ticket account has done to an average of 31K apiece and over 600K total