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See Where You Rank in Virginia

  1. read the 2+2 thread - you will see the links
     
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  2.  
    Originally Posted by evechad View Post

    its in the 2p2 thread. there is an aim conversation between me and lllllllllllllll. page 5 post 70

    Who are you EVECHAD, the Merge Police? Get a life and stop hating. Clearly nothing is going to happen so stop playing on Merge if you feel that there is cheating going on, simple as that.
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  3. is anyone else having trouble seeing the 4th page of that that thread on 2p2?
     
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  4. It's not exactly Merge but the skin, right? There are 36 skins and they license the software from Merge. The titles of these posts should reflect the skin not Merge. The skins are able to run their own promotions, etc... I'm not saying what FeltStars is doing is right but I don't think Merge controls the internal affairs of the skins.
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  5.  
    Originally Posted by supra1988t View Post

    Hes just saying that its hard to understand how the skin could afford to hand out these tickets like candy. Remember a ftp insider was selling 100% rb accounts? All he had to do is open a program and change some numbers and we don't know that is not whats going on here. Also, there is a conflict of interest and a breach of the TOC if the skin is indeed "backing" said players and receiving a cut of their winnings with said tickets. I'm not saying that is what is happening but it is something that should be looked into.

    +1000
     
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  6. I just checked and it's working for me.
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  7. If I was still in the states stuck on merge I'd definately be pretty upset, but moreso because they are basically throwing however many 2-5? good HSMTT regs into the small field tourneys who more than likely wouldn't be playing there otherwise since they are in mexico etc. which I would imagine would eat into individual roi's noticeably due to the tiny fields. Could be wrong though, maybe they would all be playing there on their own in addition to stars/party/etc.
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  8. that is strange, i cant see anything after post #300, it just sends me back to first page
     
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  9. sharing account is clearly an issue. can we get some proof, or examples, or anything other than chad saying 'they shared accounts'

    and not sure why everyone thinks i'm best friends with people involved...i guess me and swish seem real close on these boards?


    and what exactly is the violation of TOS by the skin here? again, unless i'm missing something, these players aren't getting any advantage in the tournament. people keep saying 'confilct of interest'...but a conflict of interest that results in what. sure, merge wants these players to win if they get a % back...but is there any proof that they're actually giving them an advantage in the tournament?


    and lastly, for those that are worried because you 'don't think this is a good financial decision for the skin to be paying players and giving money out like this' well, sorry, i don't think you're an accountant at the site, and this is really not an acceptable reason to start a witch hunt and blame all these players for doing something wrong
    Edited By: Gags30 Feb 12th, 2012 at 02:41 PM
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    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

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  10.  
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post


    and lastly, for those that are worried because you 'don't think this is a good financial decision for the skin to be paying players and giving money out like this' well, sorry, i don't think you're an accountant at the site, and this is really not an acceptable reason to start a witch hunt and blame all these players for doing something wrong

    it doesnt seem strange to u that they get a deal that supplies them with an endless number of tickets and no mu, plus they never use cash to buy in, rebuy or addon ? doesnt seem weird at all? do u realize they would have to nearly triple there roi to make the same return w/ a normal backing deal?

    i am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, if its true that the backing deals have no mu, that makes it seem like the tickets arent legit and are coming from thin air. if not and everything is on the up and up i dont really see the problem w/ it and its a good deal for both sides really
     
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  11.  
    Originally Posted by Iplaythabored View Post

    it doesnt seem strange to u that they get a deal that supplies them with an endless number of tickets and no mu, plus they never use cash to buy in, rebuy or addon ? doesnt seem weird at all? do u realize they would have to nearly triple there roi to make the same return w/ a normal backing deal?

    i am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, if its true that the backing deals have no mu, that makes it seem like the tickets arent legit and are coming from thin air. if not and everything is on the up and up i dont really see the problem w/ it and its a good deal for both sides really

    DING DING DING
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  12. C'mon man there isn't a reason to attack someone like that. He makes reasonable points.

    If they are just giving them 109 coupons that's their business. If the site/skin/network is actually backing them, then I'd def have a problem with that. If an affiliate is backing them then I think that slides into the area of a moral dilemma and/or a question that needs to be addressed by the TOS. If the affiliate is giving them the vouchers, and are aquiring the vouchers in an official way, then again, that's their business.

    Now, I have a hard time believing that they would hand out an endless supply of vouchers and not expect some sort of reimbursement/reward for doing so. That makes no financial sense and smells fishy to me.

    So while I think there definitely needs to be more investigation into exactly what is going on here, we don't exactly have a smoking gun.

    In the very least I would hope that the network would look into this matter and see what's going on-and do so in the most transparent of ways.
     
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  13.  
    Originally Posted by Iplaythabored View Post

    it doesnt seem strange to u that they get a deal that supplies them with an endless number of tickets and no mu, plus they never use cash to buy in, rebuy or addon ? doesnt seem weird at all? do u realize they would have to nearly triple there roi to make the same return w/ a normal backing deal?

    i am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, if its true that the backing deals have no mu, that makes it seem like the tickets arent legit and are coming from thin air. if not and everything is on the up and up i dont really see the problem w/ it and its a good deal for both sides really

    i mean, it really doens't seem weird to me. these players are being offered free shots at a tournament. sure, it might not be as +ev if they add on, but if they're good players they're still gonna be +ev in the tourney even with a min buyin. so they deposit $0 and just take shots in these tourneys cause they're freerolling...

    again, until there's actual proof that something that is giving thse players an advantage in these tourneys, or there is PROOF that there is account sharing going on, then this whole thing seems like a waste of time and a bunch of finger pointing
    Edited By: wackyJaxon Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:27 PM
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  14.  
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    i mean, it really doens't seem weird to me. these players are being offered free shots at a tournament. sure, it might not be as +ev if they add on, but if they're good players they're still gonna be +ev in the tourney even with a min buyin. so they deposit $0 and just take shots in these tourneys cause they're freerolling...

    I don't think most people are blaming the players necessarily. I think most people would like the nature of this deal made a little more transparent because the potential for something extremely shady going does exist.

    No we don't have evidence but when you think about a site/affilate handing out an endless supply in vouchers expecting zero in return, well that seems odd to say the least and could be indicative of a problem. If a site in engaged in a backing deal with a player and sharing profits then obv this calls into a question a potential conflict of interest.
     
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  15. gags its in the thread on 2p2. its an AIM conversation between me and llllllllllllllllll. i was ranting at the 100c table where lllllllllllllll was at and in the aim he admits he is not playing today. I'm not just making it up lol
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  16.  
    Originally Posted by wackyJaxon View Post

    Yes, if they don't have ownership in the site, and aren't involved with the management, then I feel this would make a difference. I don't see a problem if an affiliate is staking someone. Is this what happened?

    I think what people need to kinda realize is networks that have this many skins, the skins are arguably just glorified affiliates. Yes they have to pay a fee and get to promote their own site how they want (within set parameters) etc, but in the end a skin owner is really nothing more than a affiliate, especially the ones that use the networks cashier and everything else and are just turn-key, white label type skins.

    It's pretty common for affiliates to also be backers. As long as there's no collusion/cheating going on here I don't see anything wrong with this.

    EDIT: Also want to note, as was pointed out in the 2+2 thread, that some skins are advertising staking opportunities. RPM is one and there are others, including on other networks like Everleaf etc.
    Edited By: Nofx Fan Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:33 PM
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  17. Chad if that's true you need to email the network and alert them.
     
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  18. I have twice. everyone else should email them too imo
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  19. if this is not a sceam in progress not sure what else is.
    deftl. never ever moving any action to merge.
     
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  20.  
    Originally Posted by evechad View Post

    I have twice. everyone else should email them too imo

    Except we aren't the ones with the proof of multiaccounting. I would keep that your single focus in communicating to them-that you are aware of players sharing accounts.

    So they haven't responded to either email?
     
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  21. It is not that difficult to connect the dots from a skin to Merge. I am sure skins have access to members of the Merge Security team (i know lol @ Merge Security) and others with the power to manipulate the games. You DO NOT NEED PROOF to realize that there is a financial interest that exists that creates a conflict of interest. The T&C explicitly state that there should be no relationship between affiliates and the games offered FOR A REASON. WOW at the excuses and lack of demand for more transparency.
    Edited By: sheila12 Feb 12th, 2012 at 06:29 PM
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  22. we should catch up sometime gags :)
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  23.  
    Originally Posted by sirswish6 View Post

    we should catch up sometime gags :)

    .
     1
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  24. It seems to me that there really is no proof, or even any accusation that any player has done anything wrong, or that any skin, or the Merge network has done anything wrong as it relates to handling of in game issues (i.e. making biased rulings, cheating, ect.). That being said it does seem like a conflict of interest that a certain skin could stake a player on that network. However if the Merge TOS allows it, or more importantly does not expressly prohibit it, then all anyone could do is petition for a rule change, and if you feel that this issue bothers you to the extent that you do not feel confortable playing on the network, then it is certainly within your right to cease playing on the site.

    Also, i think it is completely redic that people come into this thread and make personal attacks at Gags, when all he did was give his opinion in an OPEN forum. whether or not he is friends with anyone that is involved with this situation is immaterial. He has no influence in the situation, and as far as i know is not affiliated with Merge in any way. He simply gave his opinion, and he made some valid points. Even though I disagree with his assesment that this is not in any way a conflict of interest, i believe the vicious language and name calling in this thread is totally unwarrented.
     
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  25. Why wouldn't the average MTT grinder try to fight against this kind of thing?

    If I were playing those stakes on a regular basis, I'd be pretty pissed that the skins were reducing my EV by giving a handful of HSMTT regs a freeroll in my games.

    I seriously doubt there's any actual cheating going on...but isn't it costing the average HSMTT player some amount of money? As customers, why should you stand for it?
    Edited By: KingTriton Feb 13th, 2012 at 05:15 AM
    Reason: said "a lot of money" which would be overstating it
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  26. Informative post here from the CEO of Hero: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1889

    My thoughts:

    1) If the money/profitability is restricted to Feltstars (or its affiliates) and those entities believe this ticketing program is profitable, that's their decision. If it is true that this program can not damage the financial stability of Merge, I don't see a need for P5s/2p2 to discuss it's acceptable or not. Whether we agree with the decision or not doesn't matter. If that isn't the case, then this is a large issue since the players, and more importantly, the skin, are effectively freerolling everyone else.

    2) If the players choose to take this offer, that's their choice. They have other alternatives to this program (I for one would back at least a couple of the people involved) and they must believe this is the deal that is most +EV for them.

    3) I don't care that a bunch of regs want to 1 barrel HS rebuys/cubed tournaments. In my opinion, it puts you at a distinct disadvantage in each individual tournament. It also is juicing the prize pools, which even if variance is increased, the larger prize pools are a positive. Given the small field sizes on merge, the one bullet approach is actually an interesting strategy and could result in a higher ROI over a series of tournaments. Perhaps even a higher total profit, even though daily expectation is lower.

    4) The multiple players on each account is a legitimate concern. evechad while I respect his MTT game did a terrible job explaining the situation. If it is true that multiple users share the same user name, I have issues with this and believe people should contact merge security and ask them to review the IP addresses associated with each account.
    Edited By: tyson219 Feb 13th, 2012 at 08:02 PM
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  27. was wondering if "RaspberryJammin" was one of the accounts in question?
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  28.  
    Originally Posted by ManchVegasPwn View Post

    was wondering if "RaspberryJammin" was one of the accounts in question?

    His name was not mentioned. I'm 99% sure I've seen him rebuy, so I doubt it. If the topic was "Perpetual rungood accounts", then I definitely think his name would have been included.
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  29. lol
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  30.  
    Originally Posted by evechad View Post

    one big thing not mentioned
    -players were sharing the accounts because they had unlimited tickets, so if they needed to be somewhere someone else could take over on the account. players did this because there's no makeup in these deals and they will gain a lot more rakeback if the account is always playing. That means it is not 1 account per person also.
    - not sure if all the accounts did that but i know some did

    http://feltstars.eu/en/vip-club/

    Felt Stars doesn't offer rakeback sir! This has been mentioned many times in that thread.
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