Originally Posted by evechad

its in the 2p2 thread. there is an aim conversation between me and lllllllllllllll. page 5 post 70

Who are you EVECHAD, the Merge Police? Get a life and stop hating. Clearly nothing is going to happen so stop playing on Merge if you feel that there is cheating going on, simple as that.

It's not exactly Merge but the skin, right? There are 36 skins and they license the software from Merge. The titles of these posts should reflect the skin not Merge. The skins are able to run their own promotions, etc... I'm not saying what FeltStars is doing is right but I don't think Merge controls the internal affairs of the skins.

I just checked and it's working for me.

that is strange, i cant see anything after post #300, it just sends me back to first page

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

and lastly, for those that are worried because you 'don't think this is a good financial decision for the skin to be paying players and giving money out like this' well, sorry, i don't think you're an accountant at the site, and this is really not an acceptable reason to start a witch hunt and blame all these players for doing something wrong

it doesnt seem strange to u that they get a deal that supplies them with an endless number of tickets and no mu, plus they never use cash to buy in, rebuy or addon ? doesnt seem weird at all? do u realize they would have to nearly triple there roi to make the same return w/ a normal backing deal?

i am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, if its true that the backing deals have no mu, that makes it seem like the tickets arent legit and are coming from thin air. if not and everything is on the up and up i dont really see the problem w/ it and its a good deal for both sides really

C'mon man there isn't a reason to attack someone like that. He makes reasonable points.

If they are just giving them 109 coupons that's their business. If the site/skin/network is actually backing them, then I'd def have a problem with that. If an affiliate is backing them then I think that slides into the area of a moral dilemma and/or a question that needs to be addressed by the TOS. If the affiliate is giving them the vouchers, and are aquiring the vouchers in an official way, then again, that's their business.

Now, I have a hard time believing that they would hand out an endless supply of vouchers and not expect some sort of reimbursement/reward for doing so. That makes no financial sense and smells fishy to me.

So while I think there definitely needs to be more investigation into exactly what is going on here, we don't exactly have a smoking gun.

In the very least I would hope that the network would look into this matter and see what's going on-and do so in the most transparent of ways.

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

i mean, it really doens't seem weird to me. these players are being offered free shots at a tournament. sure, it might not be as +ev if they add on, but if they're good players they're still gonna be +ev in the tourney even with a min buyin. so they deposit $0 and just take shots in these tourneys cause they're freerolling...

I don't think most people are blaming the players necessarily. I think most people would like the nature of this deal made a little more transparent because the potential for something extremely shady going does exist.

No we don't have evidence but when you think about a site/affilate handing out an endless supply in vouchers expecting zero in return, well that seems odd to say the least and could be indicative of a problem. If a site in engaged in a backing deal with a player and sharing profits then obv this calls into a question a potential conflict of interest.

 

Originally Posted by wackyJaxon

Yes, if they don't have ownership in the site, and aren't involved with the management, then I feel this would make a difference. I don't see a problem if an affiliate is staking someone. Is this what happened?

I think what people need to kinda realize is networks that have this many skins, the skins are arguably just glorified affiliates. Yes they have to pay a fee and get to promote their own site how they want (within set parameters) etc, but in the end a skin owner is really nothing more than a affiliate, especially the ones that use the networks cashier and everything else and are just turn-key, white label type skins.

It's pretty common for affiliates to also be backers. As long as there's no collusion/cheating going on here I don't see anything wrong with this.

EDIT: Also want to note, as was pointed out in the 2+2 thread, that some skins are advertising staking opportunities. RPM is one and there are others, including on other networks like Everleaf etc.

I have twice. everyone else should email them too imo

 

Originally Posted by evechad

I have twice. everyone else should email them too imo

Except we aren't the ones with the proof of multiaccounting. I would keep that your single focus in communicating to them-that you are aware of players sharing accounts.

So they haven't responded to either email?

we should catch up sometime gags :)

It seems to me that there really is no proof, or even any accusation that any player has done anything wrong, or that any skin, or the Merge network has done anything wrong as it relates to handling of in game issues (i.e. making biased rulings, cheating, ect.). That being said it does seem like a conflict of interest that a certain skin could stake a player on that network. However if the Merge TOS allows it, or more importantly does not expressly prohibit it, then all anyone could do is petition for a rule change, and if you feel that this issue bothers you to the extent that you do not feel confortable playing on the network, then it is certainly within your right to cease playing on the site.

Also, i think it is completely redic that people come into this thread and make personal attacks at Gags, when all he did was give his opinion in an OPEN forum. whether or not he is friends with anyone that is involved with this situation is immaterial. He has no influence in the situation, and as far as i know is not affiliated with Merge in any way. He simply gave his opinion, and he made some valid points. Even though I disagree with his assesment that this is not in any way a conflict of interest, i believe the vicious language and name calling in this thread is totally unwarrented.

Informative post here from the CEO of Hero: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1889

My thoughts:

1) If the money/profitability is restricted to Feltstars (or its affiliates) and those entities believe this ticketing program is profitable, that's their decision. If it is true that this program can not damage the financial stability of Merge, I don't see a need for P5s/2p2 to discuss it's acceptable or not. Whether we agree with the decision or not doesn't matter. If that isn't the case, then this is a large issue since the players, and more importantly, the skin, are effectively freerolling everyone else.

2) If the players choose to take this offer, that's their choice. They have other alternatives to this program (I for one would back at least a couple of the people involved) and they must believe this is the deal that is most +EV for them.

3) I don't care that a bunch of regs want to 1 barrel HS rebuys/cubed tournaments. In my opinion, it puts you at a distinct disadvantage in each individual tournament. It also is juicing the prize pools, which even if variance is increased, the larger prize pools are a positive. Given the small field sizes on merge, the one bullet approach is actually an interesting strategy and could result in a higher ROI over a series of tournaments. Perhaps even a higher total profit, even though daily expectation is lower.

4) The multiple players on each account is a legitimate concern. evechad while I respect his MTT game did a terrible job explaining the situation. If it is true that multiple users share the same user name, I have issues with this and believe people should contact merge security and ask them to review the IP addresses associated with each account.

 

Originally Posted by ManchVegasPwn

was wondering if "RaspberryJammin" was one of the accounts in question?

His name was not mentioned. I'm 99% sure I've seen him rebuy, so I doubt it. If the topic was "Perpetual rungood accounts", then I definitely think his name would have been included.

 

Originally Posted by evechad

one big thing not mentioned
-players were sharing the accounts because they had unlimited tickets, so if they needed to be somewhere someone else could take over on the account. players did this because there's no makeup in these deals and they will gain a lot more rakeback if the account is always playing. That means it is not 1 account per person also.
- not sure if all the accounts did that but i know some did

http://feltstars.eu/en/vip-club/

Felt Stars doesn't offer rakeback sir! This has been mentioned many times in that thread.