Originally Posted by boneralert

I find it ironic that you'd admonish me for not understanding how government works then proceed to deliver a spiel that would be more at home on an infowars.com message board than P5s.

I find it perfectly reasonable to think that pokerstars is sanguine about the possibility of legalization. But it's just ridiculous to say they have specific inside information that says it's going to happen. That's just not how law-making works.

That's EXACTLY how law making works. It's not supposed to, and it's not a beacon of representative government, but that's how it's worked in DC for a very long time. Why do you think lobbyists are so prevalent in DC for? They know who's going to vote for something, whose not going to vote for something, who's on the fence and can be swayed with enticements, who doesn't care, and who will vote if there's something in it for them, and this is all long before a bill even goes to the floor. Good lord, have you ever heard of Jack Abramhoff? What do you think he was doing all those years?

How do you think UIGEA got enacted in the first place? Martin Gold was responsible, all the insiders knew that. He got Frist to sneak that in a must pass bill in the middle of the night during the last day, where nobody would read it. Gold is a power lobbyist who was getting paid by the NFL.

It's almost impossible to get any law through 2 houses of congress and get a president to sign it, without wheeling and dealing, and outside influence, it just doesn't happen.

PokerStars might not know with 100% certainty how, and when there will be Federal legislation that will bring them back on US soil, but they wouldn't have shelled out all this money making this deal unless they were pretty sure they had the right people on board to have a great chance to get it done in congress. Use some common sense. They made a deal with the DOJ for almost 1 billion dollars, that's a LOT of money.And they have one of the most powerful legal firms in the world representing them. If you can't connect the dots, then you probably are going to live in the dark the rest of your life. But living in the dark can be a good thing. I know I was a lot happier when I was younger and didn't know (or care) who pulls the strings in this world.

 

Originally Posted by shakhtar

That's EXACTLY how law making works. It's not supposed to, and it's not a beacon of representative government, but that's how it's worked in DC for a very long time. Why do you think lobbyists are so prevalent in DC for? They know who's going to vote for something, whose not going to vote for something, who's on the fence and can be swayed with enticements, who doesn't care, and who will vote if there's something in it for them, and this is all long before a bill even goes to the floor. Good lord, have you ever heard of Jack Abramhoff? What do you think he was doing all those years?

How do you think UIGEA got enacted in the first place? Martin Gold was responsible, all the insiders knew that. He got Frist to sneak that in a must pass bill in the middle of the night during the last day, where nobody would read it. Gold is a power lobbyist who was getting paid by the NFL.

It's almost impossible to get any law through 2 houses of congress and get a president to sign it, without wheeling and dealing, and outside influence, it just doesn't happen.

pokerstars might not know with 100% certainty how, and when there will be Federal legislation that will bring them back on US soil, but they wouldn't have shelled out all this money making this deal unless they were pretty sure they had the right people on board to have a great chance to get it done in congress. Use some common sense. They made a deal with the DOJ for almost 1 billion dollars, that's a LOT of money.And they have one of the most powerful legal firms in the world representing them. If you can't connect the dots, then you probably are going to live in the dark the rest of your life. But living in the dark can be a good thing. I know I was a lot happier when I was younger and didn't know (or care) who pulls the strings in this world.

You're just imparting way too much efficiency on a system that you yourself have acknowledged is messy and corrupt and populated by a diverse group of actors with varied motives. For the very reasons you cite, it's just not easy to get legislation passed, especially in the current political climate, in an election year, with the type of polarization we have right now. A poker bill in particular is tricky because support doesn't necessarily break along party or ideological lines. I do think it could still happen, and I definitely buy that poker stars thinks it could, but there's just no way the outcome has been predetermined in some shadowy office building on K Street for Congress to spring it on us in its fully-fleshed out form 3 1/2 months from now. That's like saying there are FEMA camps lurking to take away your guns or put a microchip in your bloodstream or whatever's en vogue these days. It's nonsense.

If you followed the debt ceiling negotiations a year ago, then you're aware how easily the deals and makeshift compromises that politicians make can change or come undone. This was especially true for the House Republicans, whom Boehner consistently failed to deliver as a unified caucus. With all that will be on Congress's plate in the ~two months after the election, there's just no guarantee that any specific thing will get through. The top priority will be resolving the fiscal cliff, and obviously that will be complex and difficult. There are just way too many moving parts to know how something like a poker bill will fit in. Having Reid as the Senate Majority Leader probably helps. The fact that multiple conservative Republicans have already publicly taken a stand opposing online poker legislation probably hurts. We'll see I guess. My fingers are crossed.

I also think it's a little overstated how badly stars needs the US market to make this deal profitable. Let's say it's a hugely +EV settlement if they can re-enter the US market within 3 years. But if they can't, they still benefit from having the FTP brand for ROW customers and the settlement becomes slightly -EV. So really it could be a +EV overall if they think there's only like a 40% chance of legalization happening soon. These numbers are obviously hypothetical, but I at least think everyone is way overestimating the probability stars needs to assign to being allowed back into the US market to make this deal +EV for them.

 

Originally Posted by Prestonluv

Forgiven Mr. Awesome, In a tilted haste I decided I didnt ever want to play on PS anymore so did a lifetime self ban there which I now regret. Hope I can play on FTP but doubt it as they look like they will have pretty linked player databases.

Don't know if this is a repost, cause I havent seen it...

but below are the actual court settlement docs that were served to PStars and FTP.

Alot of legal jargon in there, but if you take the time to read some of it (especially the last 15 pages) it gives you a good inside look as to how the deal went down.

(ESPN Links pdf)

http://assets.espn.go.com/poker/PSSettlement.pdf
http://assets.espn.go.com/poker/FTPSettlement.pdf

cool, so what about UB? Are they ever going to repay?

 

Originally Posted by myzislow

cool, so what about UB? Are they ever going to repay?

I seriously doubt that. But anyone who played on that site knew the risks.

FK YESSS I MISS RUSH REBUY, I MISS THE MUCK NOISE, I MISS THE FISH, I MISS THE MONEY!! WELCOME BACK FTP YOU HAVE BEEN VERY MISSED :)

 

Originally Posted by ApesAreFun

Visit http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/ for a fun little Q & A. Looks like they will try to make transfers between FTP and stars a possibility. FUCK YEAH!

Do you mean .eu? Can't see anything at .com.

 

Originally Posted by myzislow

cool, so what about UB? Are they ever going to repay?

Here's what the AP/UB front looks like:

http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/...ker-ub-587635/

Not sure how many creditors would get paid before players.

 

Originally Posted by BigOrangeFan

I don't like the things being suggested in this article at all. Completely absurd.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanva...winnings-back/

That article is ugly, but probably much closer to reality than yesterday's euphoria.

 

Originally Posted by BigOrangeFan

I don't like the things being suggested in this article at all. Completely absurd.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanva...winnings-back/

This is insanity. What are they gonna do, go back and reimburse all the losers for all their prior deposits??

 

Originally Posted by BigOrangeFan

I don't like the things being suggested in this article at all. Completely absurd.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanva...winnings-back/

Hopefully someone contacts the reporter and sets him straight. The most disheartening part if true is the DOJ lawyers who are misinterpreting law.

yeah, i'll be happy when I have my money in my hand. lol at people getting happy when nothing has been decided about returning the money to u.s. players.

What a joke. If our gov't pays back degens who dumped a bunch of money online, but not people who grinded up a small roll to something substantial, I will lose my effing mind!!!