[QuEeNsKeD Disabled account]

Action packed 5/5 game...I sat with 1k and have about 1460 in front. A nitty player raises to 55 from utg1, it folds around and i 3bet to 205 with KK from the cutoff. Button(LAG player) makes it 560 total with roughly 400 behind. I'm not a big fan of laying down kings preflop but at this point I pretty much have a bad feeling that I'm up against aces. Should I let it go in this spot?

[Josh Reynolds]

no

[Taffyfella]

Hi all,

I'm about 52 BB's deep in the Sunday Warm-up and pick up KK utg. What is your move? Your thoughts would be appreciated

*VOMIT IS WHAT I DID!*

pokerstars Game #44194347696: Tournament #2010050372, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (400/800) - 2010/05/16 23:24:20 WET [2010/05/16 18:24:20 ET]
Table '2010050372 618' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: 9qqqqqqqqq (16405 in chips)
Seat 2: konar (11998 in chips)
Seat 3: spacegravy (100800 in chips)
Seat 4: JayLov (17559 in chips)
Seat 5: Taffyfella (42590 in chips)
Seat 6: silvirenzo (106863 in chips)
Seat 7: Fidget65 (72148 in chips)
Seat 8: QuimQuim (51798 in chips)
Seat 9: AMAK316 (19435 in chips)
9qqqqqqqqq: posts the ante 100
konar: posts the ante 100
spacegravy: posts the ante 100
JayLov: posts the ante 100
Taffyfella: posts the ante 100
silvirenzo: posts the ante 100
Fidget65: posts the ante 100
QuimQuim: posts the ante 100
AMAK316: posts the ante 100
spacegravy: posts small blind 400
JayLov: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Taffyfella [Ks Kd]
Taffyfella: raises 1600 to 2400
silvirenzo: raises 8000 to 10400
Fidget65: folds
QuimQuim: folds
AMAK316: folds
9qqqqqqqqq: folds
konar: folds
spacegravy: raises 8600 to 19000
JayLov: folds
Taffyfella: raises 23490 to 42490 and is all-in
silvirenzo: calls 32090
spacegravy: raises 58210 to 100700 and is all-in
silvirenzo: calls 58210
*** FLOP *** [5h Js 4c]
*** TURN *** [5h Js 4c] [Ad]
Taffyfella said, "OMFG"
*** RIVER *** [5h Js 4c Ad] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
spacegravy: shows [As Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)
silvirenzo: shows [Kh Kc] (a pair of Kings)
spacegravy collected 116420 from side pot
Taffyfella: shows [Ks Kd] (a pair of Kings)
spacegravy collected 129170 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 245590 Main pot 129170. Side pot 116420. | Rake 0
Board [5h Js 4c Ad 7s]
Seat 1: 9qqqqqqqqq folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: konar (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: spacegravy (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (245590) with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 4: JayLov (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Taffyfella showed [Ks Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: silvirenzo showed [Kh Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: Fidget65 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: QuimQuim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: AMAK316 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Edited By: Taffyfella Aug 3rd, 2011 at 11:13 AM

[dalix88]

Can't really be too concerned about the 3bettor having AA with his sizing. On the other hand spacegravy is probably never bluffing here...I would still get it in though, after vomiting all over the screen. QQ and AK would be a snap fold. Edited By: dalix88 Aug 3rd, 2011 at 02:46 AM

[BMad524]

Getting it in here. I don't think I'll ever fold KK preflop. If he has AA, gg cooler, fire up another tourney.

[Bjizzle44]

yea cant see how we can ever fold here. would really be sick cooler but id be jamming over so fast here. table dynamics are good to know, ur image to the table as well. spacegravy could be looking at the 3better as light from his sizing and cold 4bets, but will be strong sometimes here too. but as mentioned, how can we fold kk here.

btw, is 3xing ur standard raise utg with antes? would suck to be giving off this type of read by raise size as having monsters.

bjizz

[bustindustin]

for him, might as well not even play.

for u, might as well not even post anymore.

[Taffyfella]

Thanks dalix/Bjizz.

I think this would be the only spot i'd consider tank folding KK (in the future) given the postion of us all and how deep we were and my image at the time. Hand result shown below:

My image was pretty tight but i had made a few 3/4 bet moves in certain spots. UTG+1 was loose/passive so i could see how spacegravey could be pushing us both off AQ,AK, JJ. I was never raising light here though.

3x isn't my standard now, i tend to mix it up a little but back then i was scared of too many calllers!!

Here is the how the hand developed above: Edited By: Taffyfella Aug 3rd, 2011 at 11:15 AM
Reason: Typo

[LVpokerdealer]

Thanks for reading, and I hope this isn't a question/scenario that has been brought up too much before.

I was playing poker today when someone brought up a hypothetical situation with the table. Apparently this guy and his buddy had been going back and forth for a while and were now asking for peoples opinions. I am not much of a MTT player so I figured this is the right place to get good responses.

Here is the scenario....

WSOP ME....you are on the stone bubble, next one out is the bubble. First cash is for $20,000. You have 3x the average stack and are in the BB. UTG is the only one who has you covered and shoves all in. Folds around to you in the BB and you have aces....

Whatever answer you give, can you please state why. Thanks!

P.S. Sorry if this has been asked multiple times Edited By: LVpokerdealer Nov 17th, 2011 at 05:04 AM

[gjallen1975]

i would only consider folding AA or KK if I sattied in for $12.50 and need the $20k for something. But what is $20k going to get you? It's a nice piece of change, but is it life changing? What can you buy for $20k that will rinse away the shame of folding AA in the WSOP ME?

Also...bubble guy at ME get's free entry next year, so you're only out $10k not $20k in that sense. Plus, don't they withhold a portion for taxes, making your $20k like $14.5k or something....

mathematically, the call costs you $3,400, which is your 17% "loss rate" with AA. the implied odds of picking up 3x the chip average, 83% of the time? well...it's more than $3,400, i promise that.... Edited By: gjallen1975 Nov 17th, 2011 at 05:10 AM

[Keystone]

Look down at aces, call, high 5 table, lose to a rivered set of 7s, drink myself into a coma, wake up 6days later, fly home, go back to grinding small annoying tourneys on merge, profit

[LVpokerdealer]

Ya sorry, we have Aces in the BB.....sorry I left that out

[doc793]

Definately calling AA and KK. If villian has done this a lot since it got close to the bubble I would probably call with QQ and AK also. I could live with busting out with a big hand in that situation.

[Jason2890 plays plo for overlays]

It depends on the utility of $20,000 for you. If you're playing for a mincash, fold and be guaranteed the mincash. I'm 100% calling this everyday though. I'm not playing a poker tournament for several days to miss this opportunity to chip up huge and hopefully go deep, and you shouldn't be either.

If you have some crazy prop bet going where you will get $1,000,000 or something simply by cashing though, then by all means fold it.

[sirswish6 i mean super business]

ugh

[Gags30]

lol...how is this a question...you clearly call...and go very deep in the tournament....

[jimmywhitey]

Thread on 4 is better IMO Edited By: jimmywhitey Nov 17th, 2011 at 05:57 AM
Reason: really gota start working when at work

[The Baby Bull]

Easy call. 20K is useful, but 8 plus million is life changing. How many times will you have a real shot at winning so much?

[elusively]

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

lol...how is this a question...you clearly call...and go very deep in the tournament....

This.

Gags, what's our calling range tho? I'm assuming AK/1010 are



Folds. How bout QQ/JJ? At what point are we committing ICM suicide? Edited By: elusively Nov 17th, 2011 at 08:05 AM

[haonhack]

 

Originally Posted by elusively

This.

Gags, what's our calling range tho? I'm assuming AK/1010 are



Folds. How bout QQ/JJ? At what point are we committing ICM suicide?

lol 1010? why flip?

AA is obviously a call and maybe KK if you have some good read or something. Like someone said earlier you get an auto entry into next years main event anyways

[RhoNin]

So I deposited 50 bucks for the hell of it on Lock Poker today, just to check it out. My 2nd or 3rd tournament was this one and after some time I reached the final table and got the chiplead with 7 players remaining. Now comes the following:

Seat 1: notwhitneyhouston1 ($54,876.00 in chips) DEALER
Seat 2: mrfixit01 ($33,070.00 in chips)
Seat 4: RhoNeX ($51,552.00 in chips)
Seat 5: mkLT80 ($13,588.00 in chips)
Seat 7: ResultsO ($46,814.00 in chips)
Seat 8: 2browndonkys ($5,975.00 in chips)
Seat 9: hAiLeYxxxKiRsTyN ($17,700.00 in chips)
notwhitneyhouston1: Post Ante $75.00
mrfixit01: Post Ante $75.00
RhoNeX: Post Ante $75.00
mkLT80: Post Ante $75.00
ResultsO: Post Ante $75.00
2browndonkys: Post Ante $75.00
hAiLeYxxxKiRsTyN: Post Ante $75.00
mrfixit01: Post SB $300.00
RhoNeX: Post BB $600.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RhoNeX [Ad Ac]
mkLT80: Fold
ResultsO: Raise $1,435.00
2browndonkys: Fold
hAiLeYxxxKiRsTyN: Raise $4,656.00
notwhitneyhouston1: Fold
mrfixit01: Fold
RhoNeX: Allin $51,552.00
ResultsO: Allin $45,379.00
hAiLeYxxxKiRsTyN: Fold
*** FLOP *** [5h 6s Th]
*** TURN *** [8h]
*** RIVER *** [Jh]
*** SUMMARY ***
RhoNeX: Shows [Ad Ac]
ResultsO: Shows [Kh Ah]
RhoNeX: wins $5,338.00
ResultsO: wins $99,109.00


Obviously this was a rather nonchalant shove as I didn't expect anyone to call (sounds weird I know). I wouldve been just fine with the pre-shove potsize since I was the chipleader already. I shoved to basically tell people "I got AA, gtfo my way" and add a few k to my stack.
Since I lost I was heavily crippled sitting there with 5k as you can see the other stacks.

However I kept shoving with Aces (got them twice afterwards) and got rewarded. Especially in the heads-up, where I started 2nd and killed him with AA in one hand - match decided right there.


Why I'm posting this is: I started to get very active in November due to major success (for my terms) in live cash games. So I obviously wanted to get some knowledge and insight/advice from other players, which is why I'm here at p5s. A few days ago I've read an old blog from someone who was discussing folding AA pre-flop depending on your spot in the tournament. The community here ripped the guy apart, and I don't think I will ever forget those thoughts. Gonna keep shoving those Aces when it comes up, thanks for my first tournament win, p5-community! ;)

[FlwPwr]

Anyone playing on americas cardroom right now? Im in the OSS event #1 and i cant even play a hand cuz i keep lagging out........ Got AKs lagged out pre couldnt raise woulda flopped the nut str8 and just got QQ and lagged out pre and could raise..... Like really is it just me we had a big storm and net probs earlier today so just wondering if its just me here or if anyone else is having probs????

It was just me sorry for the stupid post blinded out for awhile til it got settled then worked my way back in. Question bout a hand tho if anyone wants to answer.
Sitting at bout 3800 with 60/120 blinds UTG limps with 2 more limping behind im on cutoff with KK raise to 525 folds back to UTG and he reraises big essentially putting me all in for the most part. Ever folding KK here even tho his play says nothing but AA pretty much???

[sirjwab]

Never folding KK here

[dannydunks]

is americas cardroom real money?

[gpzann10]

Deep in a WCOOP ($215 sunday tourni) this september found the hand from a post by WhOc4r3s http://www.pokergaming.cz/PokerHand/Detail/20461 ... Probably one of the sickest hands I've played in because it was deep and such a massive pot!! Thought i was more than doubling to over 550k, instead i end up with 145k :( ..... i know its crazy for cramerica1 to do with just 23.5bbs... but does anyone think he could ever ever ever fold KKs in this spot?



pokerstars Game #67023926225: Tournament #2011090001, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (2000/4000) - 2011/09/05 0:13:03 CET [2011/09/04 18:13:03 ET]
Table '2011090001 516' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: BB petter85 (209013 in chips) [52,3]
Seat 2: UTG Jimpot1 (344021 in chips) [86]
Seat 3: MP Hero (318131 in chips) [79,5]
Seat 4: CO gpzann10 (238530 in chips) [59,6]
Seat 5: BTN Alonnnnnn (78273 in chips) [19,6]
Seat 6: SB cramerica1 (94036 in chips) [23,5]
BB petter85: posts the ante 500
UTG Jimpot1: posts the ante 500
MP Hero: posts the ante 500
CO gpzann10: posts the ante 500
BTN Alonnnnnn: posts the ante 500
SB cramerica1: posts the ante 500
SB cramerica1: posts small blind 2000
BB petter85: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MP Hero [A,A]
UTG Jimpot1: folds
MP Hero: raises 5999 to 9999
CO gpzann10: raises 14001 to 24000
BTN Alonnnnnn: folds
SB cramerica1: calls 22000
BB petter85: folds
MP Hero: raises 293631 to 317631 and is all-in
CO gpzann10: calls 214030 and is all-in
SB cramerica1: calls 69536 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (79601) returned to MP Hero

*** FLOP *** [Pot = 576 596] [144,1]
[ 6,K,10 ]

*** TURN *** [Pot = 576 596] [144,1]
[J ]

*** RIVER *** [Pot = 576 596] [144,1]
[ 2 ]

*** SHOW DOWN ***
MP Hero: shows [A,A ] (a pair of Aces)
CO gpzann10: shows [A,A ] (a pair of Aces)
MP Hero collected 144494 from side pot
CO gpzann10 collected 144494 from side pot
SB cramerica1: shows [K,K ] (three of a kind, Kings)
SB cramerica1 collected 287608 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 576596 Main pot 287608. Side pot 288988. | Rake 0
Board [6,K10 J 2 ]
Seat 1: BB petter85 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: UTG Jimpot1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MP Hero showed [ ] and won (144494) with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: CO gpzann10 showed [ ] and won (144494) with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: BTN Alonnnnnn (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SB cramerica1 (small blind) showed [ ] and won (287608) with three of a kind, Kings

[iamthedeck ftw]

I think people overvalue AK pre too much in order to make the fold with kk there. I mean stacks aren't thaaaat deep.

[P0KERDUUDE]

lol no, im never EVER folding KK there.

[cartofor91]

Hello guys, lately I've been running my kings into aces everytime going broke for 250 bbs. Even though my instinct tells me to fold I just can't do it, I end up shoving/calling shoves. Maybe because my image at the table is of a bomb/maniac and people tend to underestimate me or my hand. Maybe because I got a pretty big bankroll for the stakes I'm playing so I don't feel the burn, I don't know. Also, I'm talking about full ring games. Anyways, I feel that in the long term, folding kings preflop is not profitable.

What do you guys think? Do you ever fold kings in DEEP cash games? Do you think it's right to fold kings preflop?

NOTE: this applies ONLY to DEEP cash games, I don't see how you can fold kings or queens for 100bbs. Edited By: cartofor91 Dec 8th, 2011 at 10:39 PM

[REDDA]

hello all.

I played an 18 seater $20 buy in NL sng on another site. I was a little out of my comfort zone for 2 reasons. Firstly I normally only play $7 18 seater's and secondly I rarely play on this site.

Very first hand I was UTG with KK. I raised to 100, a player 2 spots away snap re-raises me to 450. Table folds round to the button who waits about 10 seconds then shoves all in. As I said I was a little out of my comfort zone. I figured a decent re-raise then an all in, I prob should lay my KK here. I did.

The 450 raiser only took about 1 millionth of a split second to call the all in. To! my absolute horror, I see A2 off V A5 suited. I thought to myself OM"F"G.

I have 2 questions.

1) As a general rule, does the quality of player increase with the stakes?
2) Is it correct to lay KK angainst a re-raise then an all in shove?

This situation has happenned to me on pokerstars about 3 or 4 times. Each time I have called, I have usually run into AA. I find that Pokerstars in general has a much higher quality of player's even at lower stakes compared with other sites,.which is why I call Pokerstars home.

[NG3434 make it happen]

 

Originally Posted by REDDA

hello all.

I played an 18 seater $20 buy in NL sng on another site. I was a little out of my comfort zone for 2 reasons. Firstly I normally only play $7 18 seater's and secondly I rarely play on this site.

Very first hand I was UTG with KK. I raised to 100, a player 2 spots away snap re-raises me to 450. Table folds round to the button who waits about 10 seconds then shoves all in. As I said I was a little out of my comfort zone. I figured a decent re-raise then an all in, I prob should lay my KK here. I did.

The 450 raiser only took about 1 millionth of a split second to call the all in. To! my absolute horror, I see A2 off V A5 suited. I thought to myself OM"F"G.

I have 2 questions.

1) As a general rule, does the quality of player increase with the stakes?
2) Is it correct to lay KK angainst a re-raise then an all in shove?

This situation has happenned to me on pokerstars about 3 or 4 times. Each time I have called, I have usually run into AA. I find that Pokerstars in general has a much higher quality of player's even at lower stakes compared with other sites,.which is why I call Pokerstars home.

this seems like flawed thinking... wouldnt you want to play against bad players so you can win more easily?