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Online poker is rigged...

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  1. Karnage Karnage is offline

    Sydney
    Australia

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 2:47am)

    .. in favour of those people who know how to play. Psych!

    Anyway, I saw another thread in which some n00b (that will get him steaming :) said that pokerstars is obviously rigged because he saw a two outer win ten times in a row! He figured that the odds of this happening was one in 100,000. The obvious counter argument is that with all the hands that are played online, these sorts of things are bound to happen. In fact, these thngs MUST happen!

    The problem is that it is too easy to dismiss accusations of riggedness as the innevitable outcome of having a very limited sample set. What is needed is actual proof.

    The online poker companies keep very detailed records of hands played so it should be a relatively simple task to check whether each starting hand wins the expected proportion of time etc. Given the number of hands that have been played, these actual figures should be very close to the expected figures.

    Has this been done? If not, why not and when will it be?

    I suppose it would never get rid of the "I suck because it is rigged" n00bs, because they would simply switch to saying that the poker sites are very careful to make sure the percentages match expectations but they still decide who will win.

    FYI: the odds of the cards being dealt in a specific order in a ten-handed game of texas holdem is 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000008 , or 1 in 1.3E+44 (129999811339062000000000000000000000000000000).

    So when you see a hand being dealt, you are witnessing a miracle.
  2. AmarLuis AmarLuis is offline

    Davis, CA
    United States

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 2:51am) in reply to Karnage

    funny how the high stack happens to be on the winning end of those percentages all the time. A6 vs A10 wins when A6 in the monster stack. Check those statistics.
  3. Adam Adam is offline Emperor

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 2:54am) in reply to AmarLuis

    You should produce some stats and show them to us, then. Show all of us how over a large sample of hands, the high stack wins at a higher % than it's statistically supposed to.

    Then we can talk.

    GG, GL.

    No "cry rigged" guy has ever had anything more than tears to back up their claims.
     
  4. DexterCain DexterCain is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 2:55am) in reply to AmarLuis

    ^ whoa is that sarcasm or the worst reply ever?

    edit :weak, adam pwned him already
  5. maXXXstaKd maXXXstaKd is offline

    Canton, OH
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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:01am) in reply to Adam

    even though i dont think online poker rigged......but lets just say that i thought it was, how in the hell am i going to prove it?
    i would have to infiltrate poker stars HQ's james bond style...
  6. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:03am) in reply to maXXXstaKd

    or just request your hand histories from stars support, but thats sort of James Bond style right?
  7. Hodge05 Hodge05 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:07am) in reply to Karnage

    I lost 12 coinflips in a row yesturday on stars and went 2 out of 8 when the opponent only had three outs. All of this was preflop all in and i know that this was apart of poker. nothing wrong with site
  8. Run Screamin Run Screamin is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:08am) in reply to AmarLuis

    Amar,

    how do you guarantee consistency between your "monster stack" theory and the commonly held "doom button" theory? which one takes precedent?

    Example:
    I have 500 chips and my opponent has 5000 chips, but stars has turned on my "doom button". who wins a pre-flop all in when I hold A10 and the big stack holds A6?

    i'm so confused. i don't know who to believe anymore, but i know that the truth is out there...
    1
  9. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:09am) in reply to Hodge05

    2 out of 8 with 3 outs on the flop is basiccaly statistically correct.
  10. Run Screamin Run Screamin is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:09am) in reply to Hodge05

    ^^^^^^^^^^doom button.
    1
  11. Hodge05 Hodge05 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:10am) in reply to Hodge05

    i meant they only had three outs.
  12. Run Screamin Run Screamin is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:11am) in reply to Hodge05

    were you the small stack? that might be why.
    1
  13. eastontracks eastontracks is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:13am) in reply to Hodge05

    i win every flip so i'm happy
  14. Hodge05 Hodge05 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:16am) in reply to Run Screamin

    No. not short stack. most of them were late in turbos which explains the amount of coin flips and loses to aj vs my qq. im not bitching bout it. obviously part of variance. u can check what it has done to my sharkscope if u want.
  15. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:20am) in reply to eastontracks

    2 of 8 is 25% right? 3 outs with 2 cards to come is roughly 13%, so out of 8 situations thats about as close as you'll get without winning 7 of 8, which is a perfect situation.
  16. Hodge05 Hodge05 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:24am) in reply to jtown1010

    Im pushing all in with like QQ and getting called by A 8. My QQ has held up only two of the eight times. the ace has hit 6 of the 8 times.
  17. Run Screamin Run Screamin is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:27am) in reply to Hodge05

    ^^^^^^must be the doom button then...
    1
  18. maXXXstaKd maXXXstaKd is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:31am) in reply to jtown1010

    what are hand histories gonna give you, jtown? hand histories don't prove nothing, they are just bad beat info...i am talking about actual proof..
  19. Run Screamin Run Screamin is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 3:35am) in reply to maXXXstaKd

    I'm fairly certain James Bond would never say "don't prove nothing". I've never met James Bond, but I just don't think he'd say that.
    1
  20. acecatcher26 acecatcher26 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 5:28am) in reply to Hodge05

    pokerstars is not rigged, their RNG is just a piece of shit.
  21. MarkD MarkD is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 8:17am) in reply to Adam

    when i first started playing i swore stars was rigged (3 years ago) and so I decided to log all my hands with pokertracker.

    needless to say, its not rigged. however i am not going to call someone an idiot for thinking it unless they refuse to be willing to track their hands.

    varience can have a devastating effect on your mind and make you think crazy things. and if you dont understand the game or varience, then i can see why a person would think its rigged.

    with that said, if you are not willing to log all your hands and work on your game, then i dont want to hear it.
  22. ShortStack3 ShortStack3 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 8:53am) in reply to Adam

    I'm actually recording ALL all-ins preflop down on a spreadsheet. (for pokerstars)

    COINFLIPS (ex. AK vs QQ, AJ vs KQ)

    Coinflip (big stack slightly ahead)

    Coinflip (shorter stack slightly ahead)

    Coinflip (big stack comes from behind)

    Coinflip (shorter stack comes from behind)

    DOMINATE HANDS (ex. AA vs. AK, KK vs. JJ- basically drawing to 3 outs or less preflop)

    Big stack wins with the dominate hand

    Shorter stack wins with the dominate hand

    Big stack sucks out as a big underdog

    Shorter stack sucks out as a big underdog

    Every time I see an ALL-IN preflop I mark a tally down by the one it applies to. I will post the end results after I feel I've collected enough samples. Maybe like 1000 hands.
  23. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 11:02am) in reply to Karnage

    Online poker is obviously rigged, I'm just glad I am on "the list". I just started on FTP and it was really nice of them to get me on the list so quickly.
  24. POKER_PANDA POKER_PANDA is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 11:13am) in reply to EyeKnows

    a6 will beat a10 36% of the time. The big stack calls with A6 alot more with his/her stack cause he/she can afford it. You see big stacks take alot more chances against shortstacks, and therefore win alot more win they are behind.. Hell A6 will beat KK 30% of the time. Get used to it.

    :P :P :P :P
  25. Lyan Lyan is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 11:20am) in reply to Karnage

    "Has this been done ? if not, why not..."

    Because this would be the most boring task ever, and maybe even the nerdest guy on earth would simply dismiss hundreds of thousands of lines of stats, or not even take in consideration compilating them to let an automatised system control em.

    After all as rigged as OLP could be, you still have guys living out of it, guys achieving nice secondary income. If theres a way human can beat an rigged informatic system, they re doing it right now, and that makes them pure heroes.

    In fact rigged is the new word to say "unlucky", since no one want to talk of luck in poker :)
  26. jackaaron jackaaron is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 11:22am) in reply to POKER_PANDA

    I think the OP thinks online poker is rigged, it's obvious.
  27. Disrespect Disrespect is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 11:40am) in reply to Lyan

    QUICK! PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL HAT!
  28. WhereMahBitches954 WhereMahBitches954 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 11:56am) in reply to Disrespect

    Lately 90% of the time I get someone all in after the flop and I have them dominated their miracle card hits so I cant dismiss this accusation.
  29. doubledave22 doubledave22 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 12:01pm) in reply to Disrespect

    saying online poker is rigged is like saying friday the 13th is unlucky cause you broke your arm on friday the 13th. Imagine how many people broke their arm on friday the 12th but never said anything about it being lucky or not. Moral of the story is you only remember the times that it HAPPENS and never the times it doesnt happen. You dont notice when ak beats a6... only when a6 beats ak
     1
  30. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

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    Oct 20th, 2006 (10/20/2006 12:18pm) in reply to doubledave22

    obv rigged...how else would i win?
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