Actually Paradise and party poker both use the mouse movements for there RNG's also.

Its clearly read in the info they give on the RNGs

The weird thing I notice is that when I am logged on to PartyPoker sometimes the mouse freezes and moves itself in a circular motion. There might be something to that, to say it could be rigged by PartyPoker influencing the mouse movements that the RNG uses.

I don't think you can assume it isn't moving if it is up your ass. It all depends on the size of the ass and...well, how experienced that ass is.

Please tell me this guy is not serious.

Card Mann

A very interesting theory!
Why anyone would program the random number generator based on mouse movements when they are much easier ways to create the effect of randomness, I have no idea.
But I think you have enough evidence here that you should resolve to never move your mouse again during a SNG.

</sarcasm>

im so trading in my monitor for a touch screen one. no mouse needed period. movement? ha mouse is being unplugged. watch for figman to catch bax for the stars TLB

People, its not just mouse movements that affect the cards. First of all, the deck is shuffled prior to the cards being dealt, and remains that way until the hand is over. Your mouse movements during the current hand means absolutely nothing, other than you may have parkinson's disease. Direct from the PS website below:

SHUFFLE

"Anyone who considers arithmetic methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin." - John von Neumann, 1951

We understand that a use of a fair and unpredictable shuffle algorithm is critical to our software. To ensure this and avoid major problems described in [2], we are using two independent sources of truly random data:

• <LI>user input, including summary of mouse movements and events timing, collected from client software <LI>true hardware random number generator developed by Intel [3], which uses thermal noise as an entropy source </LI>

Each of these sources itself generates enough entropy to ensure a fair and unpredictable shuffle.

Shuffle Highlights:

• <LI>A deck of 52 cards can be shuffled in 52! ways. 52! is about 2<SUP>225</SUP>. We use 249 random bits from both entropy sources (user input and thermal noise) to achieve an even and unpredictable statistical distribution. <LI>Furthermore, we apply conservative rules to enforce the required degree of randomness; for instance, if user input does not generate required amount of entropy, we do not start the next hand until we obtain the required amount of entropy from Intel RNG. <LI>We use the SHA-1 cryptographic hash algorithm to mix the entropy gathered from both sources to provide an extra level of security <LI>We also maintain a SHA-1-based pseudo-random generator to provide even more security and protection from user data attacks <LI>To convert random bit stream to random numbers within a required range without bias, we use a simple and reliable algorithm. For example, if we need a random number in the range 0-25:
  • <LI>we take 5 random bits and convert them to a random number 0-31 <LI>if this number is greater than 25 we just discard all 5 bits and repeat the process </LI>
  <LI>This method is not affected by biases related to modulus operation for generation of random numbers that are not 2<SUP>n</SUP>, n = 1,2,.. <LI>To perform an actual shuffle, we use another simple and reliable algorithm:
  • <LI>first we draw a random card from the original deck (1 of 52) and place it in a new deck - now original deck contains 51 cards and the new deck contains 1 card <LI>then we draw another random card from the original deck (1 of 51) and place it on top of the new deck - now original deck contains 50 cards and the new deck contains 2 cards <LI>we repeat the process until all cards have moved from the original deck to the new deck </LI>
  <LI>This algorithm does not suffer from "Bad Distribution Of Shuffles" described in [2]</LI>

THe next thing you know the MOUSE will be moving all by iteself and have you caling all-in with 7-2...after a raise, re-raise and a 3rd raise....

If i fold preflop on stars my mouse movements and other players timings effect the cards that are to come right? I'm not sure why it tilts me so much when i fold preflop and my hand hits. I know that if I hadn't folded, other cards would have come. I know that it is important be be completley random but i wish that somehow the RNG could generate a compelely predetermined deck so i could see what really would have been.

p.s. yes i an aware that decisions are not based on hindsight but it still tilts me.

pokerstars does use mouse movements as input to the rng, but the deck is set once the cards are dealt, so nothing you do after, such as folding changes the deck. So you don't need to be tilted anymore.

Full Tilt, on the other hand is constantly shuffling the deck.

 

Originally Posted by Goal4Ziggy

pokerstars does use mouse movements as input to the rng, but the deck is set once the cards are dealt, so nothing you do after, such as folding changes the deck. So you don't need to be tilted anymore.

Full Tilt, on the other hand is constantly shuffling the deck.

this, gotta get that positive jaaaaness goin on ftp

goal, are you sure that once the deck is set its's done? where did you read that?

lol WUT! Can someone please explain to me what the fuck thermal noise and mouse movements have to do with a random shuffle, I am gonna go get baked and hope this thread makes more sense, just wow.

 

Originally Posted by Juanda 87

lol WUT! Can someone please explain to me what the fuck thermal noise and mouse movements have to do with a random shuffle, I am gonna go get baked and hope this thread makes more sense, just wow.

I figured I would help out while you are off getting baked! Now I will go get baked and look forward to your response.

thermal noise: The noise generated by thermal agitation of electrons in a conductor. The noise power, P , in watts, is given by P = kT f , where k is Boltzmann's constant in joules per kelvin, T is the conductor temperature in kelvins, and f is the bandwidth in hertz. (188) Note 1: Thermal noise power, per hertz, is equal throughout the frequency spectrum, depending only on k and T . Note 2: For the general case, the above definition may be held to apply to charge carriers in any type of conducting medium. Synonym Johnson noise.

I really love the Synonym!!!!!!!!!

wow, now i might need to get baked to make sense of thermal noise!!!!

 

Originally Posted by Juanda 87

lol WUT! Can someone please explain to me what the fuck thermal noise and mouse movements have to do with a random shuffle, I am gonna go get baked and hope this thread makes more sense, just wow.

how would you program a random event?

Aight big up to ya, Thermal noise fo real!