<span>I saw this post today and I couldn't help but feel that this guy is making a whole lot of sense. I'm a programmer too. I've always suspected it was rigged.

CLIFF NOTES:
</span>
<span>-I AM NOT SAYING POKER IS RIGGED, I'M SAYING TO READ THIS AND DISCUSS</span>
<span>AND TO NOT HAVE A CLOSED MIND EITHER WAY - saying you think it's not rigged and that
we are dumb IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT - keep it to yourself plz

-THIS GUY'S STORY IS PROBABLY NOT TRUE - DOESN'T MATTER read the SUBSTANCE of his ARGUMENT and tell me if that doesn't resonate with your PERSONAL EXPERIENCES

-I AM A PROGRAMMER this can VERY EASILY BE DONE

-If you post, if you can, mention how long you've been playing.

-</span><span>The only proof we have against it NOT being rigged, is that someone saved all their hand histories, after 10,000 hands or whatever, we all get the same amount of straights, flushes, etc.</span>
<span>For some people this is proof its not rigged.

</span><span>However, what they don't realize is, this doesn't account for HOW those hands are dealt out.</span>
A smart programming team can satisfy the above condition, and still rig it in exactly the way
this guy has described below.

<span>Before you post anything in this thread, you have to read this ENTIRE MESSAGE</span>
<span>otherwise, you're a freakin douche and gfto and all that.

Similarly, please don't post "I got 2 outered on the river, its rigged" there's a bad beat
forum for that.
</span>
<span>If you want to flame me, make sure it's funny, or again, you're a douche.

</span><span>HERE IS WHERE I FOUND THE ARTICLE/POST</span>
<span>http://www.cardschat.com/f13/online-...igation-70058/
scroll down about 2/3 of the page
</span>

"I can end the arguement for all the knuckleheads guessing"
<hr size="1">Iknow a programmer who helped create the Poker stars shuffle.Accordingto him it is rigged as its a necessary evil from a business standpoint.Though not rigged for a specific individual the hands are rigged in anumber of ways.First and foremost,80% of players on poker stars are badpoker players,the kind that call big bets on low percentage hands,orwill even raise themselves on a bad hand.If it fell according to normalpercentages the poker sharks would drain such players and drain themreal quick.If a bad player was contstantly losing his butt he would getfrustrated and not come back.If the 80% of bad players all left,so goes80% of the sites profits with them.By rigging it to dish alot of badriver beats it gives bad players who should have folded out a more evenplaying field with the sharks who would have taken all their cash.Itsnot just about bad beats either.Your chip count matters especially intournies.In a tourney if you have the highest stack in the hand beingplayed its programmed for the come from behind beats on 4th or river70% of the time if the higher calls the lows all in.You'll see ithappen constantly a hand where a lower chips goes all in preflop withpocket aces and a high stacks calls with like a 4 and 5 off suit.Flopdishes a 3rd ace with king and ten,last two cards 2 and 3 to give it tothe higher chip caller with the ace to 5 straight.By rigging it thisway it puts the odds with higher chips regardless of who had thepercentages to win but keeps it so in the long run all the low chipcallers do get some hits to block the arguement its rigged.Thats thekey is to rig it at a certain percentage this way a trend don't happenall the time,the low chips can still hit the high chip at 30% to quellany arguement that its plain out rigged for the high chip (whichtechnically it is if its going to give it to him 70% of the timeregardless of what high chips came in with).You'll also notice if youpay attention that the first 4 cards flopped are often two of twodifferent suits to leave flush possibilities for multiple hands goinginto the river,and often these also have a straight draw potential intheir to keep the max amount in the hand betting big.Many times thatfinal river card in these situations will dish a flush but with a cardthat also gave another caller his straight.Its by design this is not acoincidence.The program is alot more complicated then people evenrealize.

The endorsements of this site are paid for endorsements with thecompanies taking poker stars at their word of how the shuffleworks,these companies didn't pay any programmer to comb through theprogram and actually see how the shuffle happens in reality. I asked theexact same question to him as people here ask,why would they riskrigging it if where people could figure it out and stop playingthere.He said "Simply put,the general masses are really stupid and arewilling to trust any business unless there is clear cut proof ofrigging.As long as the low chips don't get bad beat every single handthey all in they can't claim its always rigged for high chips,as longas bad river fish don't win on the river everytime people can't say therivers are rigged so thats why you rig it at a certain percentage soits not really able to be proven cause anyone can win the hand even ifthe percentages are fixed based on chip count and table action asopposed to the percentages based on the cards.He even told me of a timethe program hit a glitch and all tournies for the day had to be shutdown while they figured out what happened with the program.In dealingits usual drama hands to keep table action high in a tourney,theprogram miscalculated and threw a 5th ace.I actually looked it up onsearch engines to see if anyone ever spoke of this and found a screenshot of the tourney he was talking about http:/wtfpokerstars.ytmnd.com.They had to fine tune the program to make sure it didn't misread whatsleft in the deck again but the rigged drama flops remain in play,thatspart was never altered.I asked him how they could get away with it ifthey were caught red handed,explanation "Well if people who saw it wantan explanation its simple,tell them it was a hacker who compromised theshuffle and make the guy who got the five aces sign up with a newscreen name and inform him if he talks about what happened in gamerooms,specifically mentioning that the 5th ace came from poker starsend and not from some program he was using,he would be banned".

So to sum it up they rig the site cause they know they can and its notjust to make a few bucks,over the course of a year the way itsprogrammed it generates them multi millions more in profits and itsdone in a way that can look questionable too many but can never reallybe proven.They bank on the majority trusting them unless actualpositive proof can be shown its rigged (which it never can be unless ahacker got into their program and actually spelled it out for usexactly how the shuffle is working).If you read message boards all overthe web you will see they made the right gamble cause the majority ofpeople stick up for them and say "its not rigged,that would be stupidwhat could they gain from that?" The answer is they gain alot from thatand by keeping it rigged specifically by a certain percentage to givethe bad rivers and such,its kept so that the sharks can't take all thebad players money but at the same time the sharks will still get theirown share of wins to keep everyone happy (or so they theorized).I playthere myself,just the free money for fun and to watch to see if thetrends he spoke of is true and the way the flops happen with alot ofriver beats,and specifically alot of higher chips players gettingbailed out of low percentage hands on the river and it is veryconsistent with the system he explained to me.So you can all debateabout if its rigged or not.I will go with the words of an actualcreator of the shuffle.He had to sign a secrecy form on how the shuffleworks so that the prgrammers can't speak publicly and compromise thesites integrity.I on the other hand am just a friend of his and signednothing,just relaying what i heard to keep players informed and savethem from having their money stolen from them *winks*

you're not a fool for thinking online poker is rigged????/////?
oh plz

im not saying it is, or it isn't

I'm saying let's discuss

i'm saying you're an idiot for not reading it after i said explicitly to read it.

you bring no value to this thread

read it, or shutup

I'm a programmer

it's not hard to do

it can be done

this guy makes a very, very good point

make dumb posts and expect to get flamed, by making this gay thread u have wasted 5mins of my life i cannot get back.

Actually it WOULD be hard to do. Oh, and you shouldnt agree with yourself under the same name, it looks bad.

Now the question is, with all the effort you put into that post to try and give stars a bad name, did you just go busto or did you get paid to try and chase people away?

^ and the doomswitch is turned on when you do withdraw

My theory is chip recycling.... fish put money on, shark takes, shark takes bad beat b/c of lucky river for a fish, new shark takes fish money and so on and so forth... this way sharks continue to win and some fish will have a nice pay day only to put it back in and lose it.

I've always been one to defend the online sites and always denied the "rigged" motive. I've always defended the sites by saying, loose online play/wrong decisions will of course lead to some nasty beats. With donks playing ATC, bad beats are inevitable, when some clown can't let go of bottom pair, yes your big PP will get cracked 20% of the time, the problem is it seems like it's more than 20% of the time. I should sit down one day with all my HHs and actually look at this.

We see more hands so we see more action online, another reason for complaining about bad beats.

But let's not forget that we're dealing with artificial (computer) technology here and any time computers are used, anything can be controled or the contrary be too perfect. Maybe as one of my buddy's say, "it's not rigged but the random generator is 'too' perfect" as opposed to a dealer shuffling/that human intervention which is actually "not" perfect. Maybe the RHG is toooooo perfect.

My only problem with the OP is the fact that he brings up the "5th" Ace, which we've all seen and know is photoshopped. So he loses some credibility there.

I live in Montreal where our govenment run Casino just recently (mid January) finally opened a Poker Room, the only problem is that for the time being all the tables are e-tables, there is not a single dealer. I have only been there 3 times (for a couple of hourse each time) and have already witnessed 4 quads (one was me flopping quad 3s in position..lol).

Anyway you hear the same stories about the e-tables, "rigged". Again probably not rigged but there's got to be something about playing on a computerized table where a human is not shuffling.

I just know so many decent winning players that will not play online because of the technology involved. They don't claim it's rigged, it's just the techonolgy and I can understand that.

its not about stars

its about any site

its not about me going busto (I did ok with poker, but i quit
to focus on other things, now i just play a few donk tournyes here and there)

its not about anything other than the argument presented in my post

nobody has anything to say against it

the truth is nobody knows either way
people who say its not rigged have no proof (the 10000 hand thing proves nothing)
people who say its rigged have no proof either

but that post brings up some interesting points
everyone always says why would sites do it, and nobody had an answer to that
until now

i've been playing for 3 years, empirically, in my opinion, what he says rings too true

I was just hoping some people had some intelligent things to say on the matter.

as for it being hard
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW

are you a programmer?

Plz reply and prove your'e not talking completely out of your ass

edit: multipost due to slow ass server

edit: multipost due to slow ass server

jokerroom.com is rigged.

.

Don't forget about the action flops meant to generate rake in cash games and to stimulate action in order to end S & G's as quickly as possible.

With regard to the S & G's, somtimes it's so obvious you just have to sit back and laugh.