Ty jester.

I'm not the kinetic type I'm a visual learner why I did poorly in English but excelled in the rest of my classes. In English I could not visualize a point to the class. I was a b average student in social studies/history, science and chemistry because I could somewhat visualize those. Math I excelled at because I could easily visualize those things. Once I was in junior hs I was able to leapfrog a year because they put me in an accelerated path but all this did was allow for te skipping of 7th grade math. After a month in geometry(8th grade class) in my 7th grade year I was bored to tears and could have easily leapfrogged the year in a quarter prolly and semester at the most. But all my school offered was the skipping of the one class.

I most likely could have finished all my hs offered up to advanced senior calculus by the end of my freshman year. This wasnt allowed so I slept through the class 90% of the time.

I was at least lucky the my school had a pretty good vo-tech that we were allowed to take classes in. I took computer buisness applications and welding. I breezed through cba and wasn't often bored but welding was a very fun class. We were the first year and as such designed and built our entire welding shop. This is where I learned I was a visual leaner for the first time because I and a couple classmates helped correct design flaws our teAcher and school board had thought up. Between us we brought the construction in under cost and with improved space.

My welding class was my senior year. Took my 14th(pre-k and k) year in school to learn myself what no other teacher could figure out, that I was a visual leaner.

We need innovative thinkers in education with a system that allows for experimentation to provide the best education for kids not one that is based on a yearly test for funding.

 

Originally Posted by tekiller

Had to comment on this. Terrible example because this is what fuel taxes are for.

i wasnt trying to show how it works in our society, just that taxes arent always a punishment. it was a hypothetical place. highway was just the first thing that came to mind. but yea it is obv fairer to use fuel tax for that. does that cover all of it?

My experience with our educational system is I was stuck learning as slow as the slowest person in class. Math came super easy to me and I would usually understand a concept intuitively or pick it up immediately once explained. I hated how we would take a week on some concepts that I got within 15 minutes. By the time I was a sophomore I was bored by school and my motivation and grades suffered as a result. Even early on it was a problem as I would often ask my parents during 1st and 2nd grade when I was going to start learning anything. They even looked into having me skip a grade but ultimately decided against it. There needs to be more choices available so that more techniques can be used so as to cater to the specific needs of each child. That can't be done when government at the federal level sets the rules for everyone.

Rural school in Missouri graduated 2003

Just missed it for the second time. Damn...

Doesn't look like its on again tonight.

Well it can't be done when the rules are set at the state level either.

 

Originally Posted by Lord Supremo

Unfortunately no, these opportunities pretty much only exist on the level you're describing in suburban areas with high home values. They could exist everywhere, but people are too stubborn to make it happen.

I understand this is the case to a large degree. Although, the property values in the rural areas where I grew up were extraordinarily low. State and federal funding were the majority of the budget, but I imagine the low cost of living would have been somewhat attractive to teachers being paid on statewide union scales. While I'm grateful to be fortunate to live in an area with great schools, I don't really understand the people who complain about their school experiences who also want to cut federal funding and regulation in schools that would have normalized some of the issues they experienced in their areas.

 

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

We're the same people that want as little regulation by the government over grocery stores and cell phones so that we have as many options available as possible. Could you imagine if we provided food to the people in the same way we provide education?

Who is paying for the unregulated education?

Either way parents are paying for education, as well as, anyone who lives in the area of the schools via taxes. Yes, even renters pay taxes.

Why cannot schools be less like a factory assembly line (which may support 70 to 80% of a population somewhat sufficiently), and label children as undesirable before they even know what that word means?

Its fucking hilarious how perfectly good adults have no idea about how "some kids" are pushed into being bad kids. You say that sounds silly right? Naw, it makes perfect sense. I was labeled as a bad kid, get this, in a school that costs as much as a college (state school but w/e), and once that label existed it was a fucking curse.

If any other kids were around and did some shit they would turn around and blame me and all the teachers would just accept their story, since they were labeled as 'good kids.' I became aware of the bias that humans use every day at a very young age. Had I continued in the same school system, with the same label, I would have dropped out of school and probably ended up in some very dark places.

I am lucky that my parents did not allow it to happen. I have 'psychological' evaluations done on me as an 8 year old that describe a child who was withdrawn, paranoid, and felt like they did not fit in to their environment. I was labeled borderline anti-social and my parents were told that I should be medicated to treat me for my problem. I have stories upon stories of just the dumbest shit that got pinned on me and thus I "lost privileges." It was maddening for a 7 year old to hear that you will grow up to be a nothing because you can't sit in your chair for 5 minutes without wanting to move around to think about your work.

My problem was that I wanted to fucking move around when I think. Ever walk around the room while "brain-storming?" I do it all the time, I pace constantly, I tap my fingers, I tap my feet, I move almost some part of my body constantly when I am thinking. I sweat when I think it is such an active thing for me. Thinking is a physical activity for me. It is for my brother, my mother, my aunt, my grandmother, my cousin, and my son as well. There have literally been intense family discussions in my family that have occurred across multiple rooms in a house because one or more of the participants would wander around to digest a thought.

But since I couldn't sit down I was bad? Same with my son. The system, instead of allowing for the individual to grow in a structured environment, instead would rather use drugs and pound square pegs into round holes, or just push some kids completely out of education with their labels, thus creating criminals out of kids who otherwise, if given a chance, would have taken a different path.

When those who didn't have a problem with the system hear about how awful the system can be for others do not understand, they do not understand because they were not subjected to the worst side of the bias that is part of human nature.

I've spoken with some much smarter people in the education world than myself on these topics, i.e. - the broken system. My personal experiences as to how broken it was for me, and is for my son, just disgust me to no end. As well, it frustrates me to when others say, oh, it was fine for me, so I don't understand how it was not fine for you.

One size doesn't fit all, and especially in education. The more we try to mass produce kids like a factory line the more we lose as a society. Drugging kids, and pounding square pegs into round holes, and labeling children as young as 8 as incorrigible, or a trouble maker, has lasting effects on children. Never lived with that label, then no, you don't know what it is like... but I'm sure that you remember the kid(s) who did have that label and most of them don't turn out successful.

Obama did not end the Iraq war. That was Bush's time table. We were also kicked out of Iraq because our troops wouldn't have amnesty there anymore.
The unemployment rate doesn't take into account the number of people that have been unemployed for months and just quit looking for work. It is much higher than 8.5%
Healthcare that is unconstitutional and being repealed in multiple states.

Added close to 4 trillion in his first term....check

 

Originally Posted by LVpokerdealer

Obama did not end the Iraq war. That was Bush's time table. We were also kicked out of Iraq because our troops wouldn't have amnesty there anymore.
The unemployment rate doesn't take into account the number of people that have been unemployed for months and just quit looking for work. It is much higher than 8.5%
Healthcare that is unconstitutional and being repealed in multiple states.

Added close to 4 trillion in his first term....check

pretty sure facebook chain posts are indisputable in their facts

Hey jester I think my nephew may be like you. If you could pm me some advice on how to help him and any literature that may be of use I would appreciate it. His father is a teacher so he isn't being excluded or labeled too much yet but they have discussed drugs and is like to know any avenues before that point hits.

 

Originally Posted by zeppelinzoso16

The Obama administration:
1. Got Osama bin laden... check

Check should have been dealt with in the 90s by Clinton but thats neither here nor there

2. unemployment rate down to 8.5%... check

Real unemployment still well beyond that.

3. 1.6 million jobs created with no GOP help... check

Debatable on how much he had to do with that beyond the spending between him and congress.

4. 22 months of job and economic growth... check

Debatable again. How much is attributable to the fed keeping interests rates so low and how much would that have happened without a 5 tril price tag.

5. Ended war in Iraq... check

Ended war kicked out meh tomato tomahto.

6. DADT repeal... check

Good idea while in a conflict? Debatable.

7. Not one tax hike in 3 years... check

Not by his choice

8. Same wife for 15 years with no extra marital affairs... check

That we know of. Same with Gingrich. Calista according to his ex was okay with it so DADT?

9. Saved the auto industry which got GM back to the #1 automaker in the world and created 1.5 million jobs... check

Wasn't this under bush?

10. Assisted in ousting Ghaddafi... check

Good thing or bad thing for our own interests? I do not know so I'll go ahead and give him a check.

11. Only active President to receive Nobel Peace prize while in office... check

......who fucking cares?

12. Mortgage modification to prevent home owners from losing their home... check

I don't know enough on the specifics of what was done beyond I think it's only for freddie and Fannie people.

13. STILL fighting for middle class families... check

Debateable.

14. 1st president since Roosevelt (GOP) to reform healthcare... check

And healthcare continues to rise prolly get repealed because of unconstitutionality. Meh.

15. Reformed financial system, first time since FDR... check

Dodd-frank bill? Bleh.

Despite what the GOP would have you believe the President has been doing these things and more by himself. Obama 2012

Yes congress has done nothing and it's all him lol.

They always remove marginally attached from the official UE rate, so comparisons across administrations are equivalent.

Second, and most important the UE rate is a measure of labor supply and demand, marginally attached are not added because they do not have the skills or some other barrier to be included. it's not meant to be an indicator of economic health, but unfortunately people love to take statistics and use them for what ever purpose they see fit.

if you want to include the marginally attached, and not part-time people it looks like this.

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

Databases, Tables & Calculators by Subject

include graphs Data extracted on: January 25, 2012 (10:53:44 PM)
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Series Id: LNU03327708
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Unadj) Special Unemployment Rate U-5
Labor force status: Aggregated totals unemployed
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
Percent/rates: Unemployed and marginally attached workers as a percent of the labor force and marg attached


if you also nclude part-time as unemployed + marginally attached, you get what LV's spindoctor is talking about

Databases, Tables & Calculators by Subject

include graphs Data extracted on: January 25, 2012 (10:55:07 PM)
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Series Id: LNU03327709
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Unadj) Special Unemployment Rate U-6
Labor force status: Aggregated totals unemployed
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
Percent/rates: Unemployed and mrg attached and pt for econ reas as percent of labor force plus marg attached


edit: lastly lets take a look at the official rate



include graphs Data extracted on: January 25, 2012 (11:04:42 PM)
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Series Id: LNU04000000
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Unadj) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over

Download:


Notice anything interesting? The graphs all look the same, except for the scale. It's not like they are trying to perpetuate some big lie, they just use the last one as the "official" rate. Cleary there is an unemployment problem and that problem has not been remedied in a time line that suits many in this country. The questions is whether you think the current admin has done a good job at stabilizing those numbers (perhaps slightly improving) or if it is their fault that they don't "look better" or that they look as bad as they do.

lastly, let us not forget that Obama took office in 01/09; in all situations the UE was ~ 50-70% higher at that time, then it was just a year previous.

 

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Rural school in upstate NY, graduated in 1988.

Where in upstate?