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Joined: Feb 07Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 2:26am) in reply to ealltheway
Id take 50 bucks. why would i want to speak 5 diferent languages when im american? personally it makes no sense to me to know 5 dif languages. silly effin question when you say 5mil.
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Joined: Sep 05Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 2:48am) in reply to setherson2
All this thread has taught me is that the amount of money you would be willing to pay is inversely proportional to how conservative you are.
Shocker that elburro and skisteve would rather drink diarrhea water, while zepp and amslim would give up the 5 million, their first born child, and their anal virginity. -
tommpat2000
Chief Asshat
Posts: 15,861
Joined: Apr 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:08am) in reply to setherson2
are you in international business?Originally Posted by setherson2
Holy fuck you're stupid.
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tommpat2000
Chief Asshat
Posts: 15,861
Joined: Apr 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:22am) in reply to setherson2
Yes, and I'd rather be rich and not speak the language than go there poor but fluentOriginally Posted by setherson2
Do you ever want to leave the country or simply interact with someone who doesn't speak English?
Just today work/ made deals with people in India, Thailand, japan, Taiwan, china, Columbia, Jordan, uk (pointless example) Greece Jordan and turkey from what I remember off the top of my head. Guess how many languages I am fluent in? -
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Joined: Jul 07Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:44am) in reply to David Whats
correct. because nothing ever breaks or wears out or anything like that. ever.Originally Posted by David Whats
Serious>? I have one property now and it costs me about 1 hour per month to manage, x that by 13 properties, i doubt 13 hrs per month can be classed as working part time let alone full time.
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Joined: Mar 09Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:46am) in reply to Neeek
The baby will be very tolerant and likely grow up to be a vegan lesbian who volunteers to spread equality around the world, in reality making little to no impact on the worldOriginally Posted by Neeek
All this thread has taught me is that the amount of money you would be willing to pay is inversely proportional to how conservative you are.
Shocker that elburro and skisteve would rather drink diarrhea water, while zepp and amslim would give up the 5 million, their first born child, and their anal virginity.
If the topic was changed to the aliens offered 5 futuristic guns or 5 million dollars Elburro and company would change their tune. Now you would peak their interest -
tommpat2000
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maybe because they might have a potential to be of equal value?Originally Posted by zeppelinzoso16
If the topic was changed to the aliens offered 5 futuristic guns or 5 million dollars Elburro and company would change their tune. Now you would peak their interest -
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I see no value in me owning guns. I see tremendous value in knowing languages.
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Joined: Sep 05Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:56am) in reply to Zeppelin
LOL, my absolute favorite kind of liberal.Originally Posted by zeppelinzoso16
The baby will be very tolerant and likely grow up to be a vegan lesbian who volunteers to spread equality around the world, in reality making little to no impact on the world
FWIW I would gay marry your hipster vegan bohemian-bourgeois (or he would call it bobo) baby. -
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Joined: Feb 05Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:58am) in reply to Neeek
interesting observation.Originally Posted by Neeek
All this thread has taught me is that the amount of money you would be willing to pay is inversely proportional to how conservative you are.
Shocker that elburro and skisteve would rather drink diarrhea water, while zepp and amslim would give up the 5 million, their first born child, and their anal virginity.
holy shit i can't even imagine what you would do for the 5 languages, neeeek. -
tommpat2000
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i meant monetary value, not pretend wanna be hippie bullshit value
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TheWacoKidd
haters gonna hate
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Originally Posted by zeppelinzoso16
I see no value in me owning guns. I see tremendous value in knowing languages.
lol, new technology is infinitely more valuable than being one more of the multitude of people able to translate languages. youre just being silly at this point -
Posts: 9,501
Joined: Sep 05Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 4:14am) in reply to playwithfire05
Edited By: Neeek Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:14 AMits makes me smile how you can't even make sense of his statement/can't fathom a personal value system that isn't monetary.Originally Posted by playwithfire05
lol, new technology is infinitely more valuable than being one more of the multitude of people able to translate languages. youre just being silly at this point
My vocabulary was insufficient to do it justice :(Originally Posted by MUPokerPlayer
holy shit i can't even imagine what you would do for the 5 languages, neeeek.
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Posts: 19,757
Joined: Jan 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 4:41am) in reply to Neeek
I wish more people felt this way so we wouldn't feel so compelled to "fairly" distribute existing wealth. You make a good argument for not taking wealth from those who value money and giving it to those who don't. There's not much fair about doing that. Probably even a more compelling argument against taking wealth from those who value money and giving it to those who can't figure out how to make it without getting it from the government. The green energy industry is an example of this. Nothing fair about that either.Originally Posted by Neeek
its makes me smile how you can't even make sense of his statement/can't fathom a personal value system that isn't monetary.
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Joined: Mar 09Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 4:54am) in reply to playwithfire05
Edited By: Zeppelin Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:50 AMIt is mind blowing aint it. I had to leave the room regain my composure after reading thatOriginally Posted by Neeek
its makes me smile how you can't even make sense of his statement/can't fathom a personal value system that isn't monetary.(
First off, I have no interest in using my new found language skills to become a translator. I would use the languages to explore the world and have real life experiences of cultural exchange and local interaction. Be able to carry in depth conversations with people in their local language with whom currently I can't do much more than exchange smiles and share a glass of tea. It would be the life of my dreams. I would find these experiences far more rewarding and fulfilling than whatever it is people do with their guns.Originally Posted by playwithfire05
lol, new technology is infinitely more valuable than being one more of the multitude of people able to translate languages. youre just being silly at this point
There is value in technology and clearly I regularly use the internet etc. However, I am sorry, I do not see the same value you appear to in advancing gun technology or world weaponry. Unless these futuristic guns are non lethal and will replace what we currently use our world is better off without them. I see more value in breaking down language barriers and working towards cultural exchange than there is in advanced weapons technology. Or on a personal level a far better quality of life offered by the benefits of knowing languages compared to the quality of life offered by the benefits of owning guns.
I think most poor people do value wealth. They don't have the opportunity or knowledge on how to acquire itOriginally Posted by Willywoo
I wish more people felt this way so we wouldn't feel so compelled to "fairly" distribute existing wealth. You make a good argument for not taking wealth from those who value money and giving it to those who don't. There's not much fair about doing that. Probably even a more compelling argument against taking wealth from those who value money and giving it to those who can't figure out how to make it without getting it from the government. The green energy industry is an example of this. Nothing fair about that either.
Who do kids in the hood look up to? The guys flaunting their "wealth" with gold chains, rims, cash money bla bla. The kids want to be wealthy but in reality they don't even know what the F wealth is. -
Posts: 298
Joined: Feb 11Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 7:36am) in reply to Lameass_
How long does it take you to phone someone to come and fix things?Originally Posted by Lameass_
correct. because nothing ever breaks or wears out or anything like that. ever.
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Joined: Sep 05Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 12:06pm) in reply to Willywoo
Edited By: Neeek Apr 26th, 2012 at 12:15 PMwtf does this have to do with zep choosing languages over weapons? I get that you like to use every chance you find to launch into a freemarket diatribe, but I'm not sure now was the time. I doubt me explaining explaining why he would choose the languages has anything to do with some inherent desire to redistribute wealth.Originally Posted by Willywoo
I wish more people felt this way so we wouldn't feel so compelled to "fairly" distribute existing wealth. You make a good argument for not taking wealth from those who value money and giving it to those who don't. There's not much fair about doing that. Probably even a more compelling argument against taking wealth from those who value money and giving it to those who can't figure out how to make it without getting it from the government. The green energy industry is an example of this. Nothing fair about that either.
don't get me wrong, I still want to take your money away from you and give it to jaybone, its just that this thread has nothing to do with that. -
Glo4m
Confess to me
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Joined: Dec 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:28pm) in reply to Neeek
Edited By: Glo4m Apr 26th, 2012 at 03:31 PMThere's a huge difference between fluency and native-level fluency. I have never been anywhere near native level, and many people study for decades and will never have native level pronunciation if they come from the West. It’s the same for Chinese learning English, I have listened to many Chinese-born professional English translators, and they still have an accent and some syllables are pronounced awkwardly. They also generally have a mix of an American and British accent, presumably from years of studying under different instructors with different accents.Originally Posted by Neeek
My guess is its still difficult for native speakers to understand him at times.
I spend a ton of time around people from other countries. the majority are still hard to understand at times, despite being here for 2-5 years or more. those on the lower end of that can be extremely hard to understand in most of what they say.
Technically they are fluent, I guess, but for the hypothetical I'm thinking like perfectly understandable/can nearly pass as a native speaker.
The easiest way for a Westerner to attain true native level fluency in a language like Mandarin is years of immersion as a child. Children naturally comprehend/mimic the nuances of spoken language much more proficiently than adults (see Chomsky’s Language Acquisition Device). It is possible to attain in adulthood, but it requires a certain level of natural ability and decades of study. One of my Chinese professors in college was white, and he spoke both Mandarin and Vietnamese at a native level. The Chinese born professors said he could call their relatives back home and they would have no clue he was not a native born Chinese. He was in his sixties, and had devoted 3-4 decades of his life on these two languages. He was a Yale graduate, and obsessed with linguistics. In his spare time he translated old Daoist and Confucian works and also Chinese calligraphy. I would contend that he is a rare breed, and few people could attain the level of fluency he has in adulthood even with decades of study.
So to attain conversational spoken fluency in Mandarin in 2 years of immersion is possible, but pretty difficult and dependent upon intelligence level and natural ability. I think I was successful due to the latter more than the former. As previously mentioned I think I found my way around the tonality of the language more quickly than most due to my background in vocal music. More specifically a capella music. I was in a professional barbershop quartet for 5 years prior to learning Mandarin, so my ear was very well trained in terms of recognizing the nuances of vocal tonality.
As for attaining fluent literacy in Mandarin in 2 years, not a chance in hell. I have read that the average literate Chinese can recall from memory and write at least 6-7k characters. Chinese does not have an alphabet, each word has a unique character. They are organized by radicals, which are simple, basic characters containing only a few strokes or less. For example, to look up a character in a Chinese dictionary, one must first isolate the primary radical, and then go the corresponding section in the dictionary. Then you must count how many strokes the character contains in additional to that radical, and find the subsection corresponding to that number. Then you search through the character list and find the one you are looking for. There is also no syllabic basis to the characters. You cannot look at a character the first time and figure out how to pronounce it without knowing the meaning, like you can in alphabetical written languages like ours. Needless to say, it is extremely tedious, and you have to go about it the long way, which is basically writing the same character over and over until you have it memorized.
Another flaw to snagg’s plan is the average person’s inability to process and retain multiple languages simultaneously. Maybe he is smarter and more capable than I, but I spent years learning Spanish as a teenager. When I started Mandarin, I would often mix up Spanish words with Chinese ones. Once I was a couple years deep with Chinese, I started losing all of my Spanish. After coming back to the US, I tried getting my Spanish back, but I would often confuse Chinese words with Spanish words and I eventually just accepted that I’m not smart enough or motivated enough to try to retain more than 2 languages in my head. So to hop from one country to another, you can certainly learn a lot, but I think very few people are capable of retaining those languages as they learn new ones.
In short, to achieve a basic level of conversational fluency in spoke Mandarin, sure ---its possible in 2 years of immersion. But impossible to do so and get anywhere near native level, no matter how intelligent and gifted you might be.
Reason: lol i was channeling bfactor -
Posts: 5,205
Joined: Dec 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:46pm) in reply to Glo4m
I NEVER would claim literacy in two years. And with your first-hand experience I am inclined to believe that maybe I couldn't fool a native on the phone after two years. But back to the original premise, I think I would be conversationally fluent and have had the joy of living abroad and learning these languages AND 3.25 mirrion (I know that's a Japanese joke not Chinese) in the bank.
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Glo4m
Confess to me
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Joined: Dec 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 3:54pm) in reply to snaggs
i think that's a reasonable statement, there are just a shit ton of variables involved. Plus if I became a millionaire I would be too busy spending money to focus on learning some new shit, lol.
Edited By: Glo4m Apr 26th, 2012 at 03:54 PM -
Posts: 19,757
Joined: Jan 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 4:52pm) in reply to Neeek
Edited By: Willywoo Apr 26th, 2012 at 04:52 PMNot a damn thing. I was responding the comment I quoted about "a personal value system that isn't monetary". Our government, as well as most individuals, measures fairness, success and worth in monetary terms. This thread, as weak as the question is, essentially gets to the issue of what is more important to people, personal enrichment or money? I was agreeing with you that there are many people who are not motivated by money but by other things like some form a personal enrichment, yet our society's accepted measure of worth is clearly monetary wealth. Hardly a diatribe.Originally Posted by Neeek
wtf does this have to do with zep choosing languages over weapons? I get that you like to use every chance you find to launch into a freemarket diatribe, but I'm not sure now was the time. I doubt me explaining explaining why he would choose the languages has anything to do with some inherent desire to redistribute wealth.
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Joined: Oct 07Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 5:28pm) in reply to Glo4m
what do you think of this guy? he just studied mandarin cold for the last 3 or 4 months. it's hard for me to gauge when he speaks b/c i have no knowledge of mandarin at all. http://www.fluentin3months.com/Originally Posted by Glo4m
So to attain conversational spoken fluency in Mandarin in 2 years of immersion is possible, but pretty difficult and dependent upon intelligence level and natural ability. I think I was successful due to the latter more than the former. As previously mentioned I think I found my way around the tonality of the language more quickly than most due to my background in vocal music. More specifically a capella music. I was in a professional barbershop quartet for 5 years prior to learning Mandarin, so my ear was very well trained in terms of recognizing the nuances of vocal tonality.
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Posts: 5,205
Joined: Dec 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 5:52pm) in reply to Glo4m
Hmm let's change the motivation. You GET 5 million if you become fluent in 5 languages including Mandarin. Using my schedule as an example you get 7 years. Can you do it?Originally Posted by Glo4m
i think that's a reasonable statement, there are just a shit ton of variables involved. Plus if I became a millionaire I would be too busy spending money to focus on learning some new shit, lol.
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Glo4m
Confess to me
Posts: 17,600
Joined: Dec 06Apr 26th, 2012 (4/26/2012 6:45pm) in reply to SevenCostanza
Edited By: Glo4m Apr 26th, 2012 at 06:47 PMI'm working so I just listened to a cpl min of it. Extremely impressive for only studying a few months, but he's still at a pretty basic level. His pronunciation is ok for a beginner but his accent is heavy and he is making plenty of mistakes tonally and grammatically. Even if you don't understand the language listen to all the pauses and "uhs" and "ums" as he is struggling to find the right words. Pacing and syllabic emphasis are important in Chinese as the tone of one word can have an effect on how the tone of the next word is pronounced. Shit, kind of hard to explain that particular point.Originally Posted by SevenCostanza
what do you think of this guy? he just studied mandarin cold for the last 3 or 4 months. it's hard for me to gauge when he speaks b/c i have no knowledge of mandarin at all. http://www.fluentin3months.com/
In any case, if he has only studied for 3-4 months as he says that is very impressive.
edit: just watched some of the 2nd vid, listen to the white dude in the green shirt he is talking to in that vid, now that guy speaks very well.
i would certainly fucking try lol. not sure im i am smart enough to retain all of that though. would probably get 2-3 down and then lose them as I try to learn the others.Originally Posted by snaggs
Hmm let's change the motivation. You GET 5 million if you become fluent in 5 languages including Mandarin. Using my schedule as an example you get 7 years. Can you do it?
well, fuck that I would just choose the 5 most similar like Spanish and Portugese and hope to cheat a little and get by with similarities so i could ship the millys, lol
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