http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...e-mask-off-FOX

things seem to be going good for Romney

I don't remember the last time I made a serious or semi serious response to a killingbird post. If I hit respond to one of his post it was clearly an accident. My post was obviously in response to a line of posts and responses with pistol and userid. Pretty sure killingbird was just so excited that I would be responding to one of his posts that he lost his head for a moment

 

Originally Posted by pistol45

Romney does not pay individual income taxes. The taxes filed by the businesss he runs ARE his taxes.

In 2010, Romney made $21.7 million, on which he paid $3 million in taxes at an effective tax rate of 13.9 percent. In 2011 he paid more than $3.2 million in taxes at a rate of 15.3 percent.

lol I guess my work here is done. And no there is no ethical obligation to pay taxes. It is a legal obligation. Our tax system is corrupt, unethical, and immoral, therefore there cannot be an ethical obligation to pay immoral and unethical taxes. I wonder if anyone else on here thinks paying taxes is an ethical obligation. It would not surprise me if there were a few. This soi not to say that there exists no set of circumstance under which a tax could be moral and ethical, just not the way we do it.

it's just more proof that the tax code is messed up - guys like Romney will shelter their money in overseas accounts (legally) to reduce their tax rate and that money stays in those foreign markets - this causes them to invest more in foreign markets rather than return it home at a higher rate - the products they produce in foreign markets get shipped back home and compete against american products and jobs which puts more pressure on domestic costs. Death spiral for american corps and workers.

there should be some form of repatriation / forgiveness but it has to come with strings attached to ensure that the money is in fact invested in american markets - same goes for corporate tax reductions - reduce the rate by 10% in exchange for the elimination of certain write offs or for guarantees in domestic investment. It can't be a one way street.

 

Originally Posted by pistol45

You don't even think people have an ethical obligation to pay taxes, I doubt you're ever going to understand what I believe is nefarious about Romney. Romney does not pay individual income taxes. The taxes filed by the businesss he runs ARE his taxes. If Marriott applies a fraudulent tax strategy while he is audit chair, then that directly reflects on Romney. That is not speculation. Claim that corporations are people, then don't want to hold management accountable when the organization is corrupt, great system.

facts would be good things. it's worse to accuse someone of something they didn't do than a person having done the same wrong thing, imo

this is by that right wing extremist Sorkin, but I thought it was pretty good

 

Originally Posted by userid363

facts would be good things. it's worse to accuse someone of something they didn't do than a person having done the same wrong thing, imo

I'll clarify, because I wasn't clear. I was referring to the fact that Romney pays capital gains on his earnings, not normal personal income. The businesses he's managed pay him nominal or no salary and he gets capital gains for stock options. The businesses tax filings were his taxes.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

ffs that is from his personal return. You guys are too much. But you do make a great point. If you are going to criticize him for paying what he owes under the current fucked up tax system for 2010 and 2011 (even tho your criticism is founded on false assumptions ie; corporate rate v personal rate) what will you do with the rest of his returns? Like I said, I understand why he won't release them.

It isn't the rate he is paying. It is the amount he is not paying. Unreported international tax shelter income is likely to be on (or missing from) earlier tax returns, he is not being transparent regarding these issues and there are justified questions about his taxes. Questionable deductions might be a talking points, e.g. the $77k deduction for their horse.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

Sounds like you don't like the tax code. Is your objection a moral or ethical one?

I don't agree with the tax code. It is extraordinarily exploitable, and the fact that it is so complicated makes it difficult to enforce. The fact that his income is not in the 'wages' field means he doesn't pay SS or Medicare taxes on that income. The system being skewed towards the super-rich is an moral problem.

I have a solution that both sides hate so I think it must be good. We could zero out capital gains taxes as long as people who derive the majority of income from gains only should pay taxes on it as if it were income, because to them it is. No more taking a 1 dollar salary because it wouldn't matter. I would eliminate buying a rental home by momma so I can fly my private jet to see her and write the entire trip off as a business expense.

We could lower rates for everyone and increase revenue, but that doesn't fit the class warfare angle or the cronyism crowd.

 

Originally Posted by pistol45

We should collect the amount owed + penalty and charge them for evasion, but the IRS offered amnesty for those that wanted to voluntarily report their offshore earnings they had previously not reported, so they're only subject to the back taxes and penalties. Did the Romneys take advantage of that amnesty program? They declined to answer or provide the forms (likely to be filed with the 2009 tax return).

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/articl...180946,00.html

it's treasonous to invest in other countries?

 

Originally Posted by pistol45

It isn't the rate he is paying. It is the amount he is not paying. Unreported international tax shelter income is likely to be on (or missing from) earlier tax returns, he is not being transparent regarding these issues and there are justified questions about his taxes. Questionable deductions might be a talking points, e.g. the $77k deduction for their horse.

 

Originally Posted by ginwilly

lol pistol, are you implying he's hiding money and you can prove it because he listed this hidden money on his returns?

lol. good grief pistol

 

Originally Posted by norcaljeff

it's treasonous to invest in other countries?

Illegal to fail to report income (and pay the required taxes), not illegal to earn income.

If he isn't doing anything illegal then why do people care? Are there any liberals on here who actually believe there is a possibility a man of this stature under this sort of microscope is gonna be cheating on his taxes? I mean seriously. just think about it for a minute. If you're gonna dismiss the whole birth certificate thing how without being a hypocrite or an idiot can you be so passionate about mitt Romney releasing his tax returns? it's just plain petty and stupid.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

ffs that is from his personal return. You guys are too much. But you do make a great point. If you are going to criticize him for paying what he owes under the current fucked up tax system for 2010 and 2011 (even tho your criticism is founded on false assumptions ie; corporate rate v personal rate) what will you do with the rest of his returns? Like I said, I understand why he won't release them.

yes, personal return, and he earns tons of income, yet pays no personal income tax. Not sure how this guy avoids the AMT.