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See Where You Rank in Virginia

  1.  
    Originally Posted by JRoth15 View Post

    that's not really true...the first part is, but the part about somebody playing better than him isn't.

    and the fact that it's even a possible scenario should tell you enough about the ATP rankings to know that they're retarded.

    please detail a scenario for me where someone doesn't have a better consecutive 365 day period than Djokovic but takes over the #1 spot in the rankings from him.

    with respect to you saying that because there is a possible scenario where novak could finish 1st in 50% of the tournaments and 2nd in 50% of the tournaments and not be # 1 is retarded doesn't really make sense to me. these possible scenarios are so unlikely, but the result is well justified if it happens.

    scenario: Novak wins half his tournaments and finishes 2nd in the other half. Rafa plays the exact tournaments and wins half the tournaments and finishes 2nd in the other half. However Rafa wins all 4 majors and 70% of the master series events. Each player has the exact same wins and exact same losses on the season, with the exact same runner up places. Rafa will be ranked #1 and with good reason. He performed better in the bigger the tournaments. How do you think this is retarded that Novak is not #1?
     
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  2. This Tsonga vs Istomin match is gettin good. Was pretty much over about 10 mins ago when Tsonga was up 2 sets to 1 and up 5-2 in the 4th but Istomin is on a mission right now and has it 5 all in the 4th. And lol at seagulls flying 30 feet above the court everywhere.

    And Tsonga wins. Damn jinx post.
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  3. Tough to see Stosur have such psychological problems dealing with pressure. After what she did to Serena in New York, it's hard to believe she can't even win matches at tuneup events on her home soil.

    Having said that, Sorana Cirstea was hitting some absolute lasers. That girl can fuckin rip.
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  4. Isner at +15000 1time?
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  5. Djokovic found out he had celiac's disease and changed his diet, since then he has been unstoppable.
    His 2011 was arguably one of the best tennis season's ever.

    From Wiki:
    "Pete Sampras declared Djokovic's season as the best he has ever seen in his lifetime, calling it "one of the best achievements in all of sports."[50] Boris Becker called Djokovic's season "one of the very best years in tennis of all time," adding that it "may not be the best statistically, but he’s beaten Federer, he’s beaten Nadal, he’s beaten everybody that came around to challenge him in the biggest tournaments in the world." [51] Rafael Nadal, who lost to Djokovic in six finals on three different surfaces, described Djokovic's performances as "probably the highest level of tennis that I ever saw."

    I see Novak taking Aussie, Wimbledon and US again in 2012.

    Also +1 to Milos, hope he continues to improve.
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  6. another game for miiiiiiiiiiiiilos
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  7. Beck withdrew - Federer gets a walkover today.
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  8. his road to the semis is absolute cake.
     
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  9.  
    Originally Posted by qjuice14 View Post

    scenario: Novak wins half his tournaments and finishes 2nd in the other half. Rafa plays the exact tournaments and wins half the tournaments and finishes 2nd in the other half. However Rafa wins all 4 majors and 70% of the master series events. Each player has the exact same wins and exact same losses on the season, with the exact same runner up places. Rafa will be ranked #1 and with good reason. He performed better in the bigger the tournaments. How do you think this is retarded that Novak is not #1?

    lol yes...i'm going to go back through every tournament that Novak played last year, see who went out in the quarters or sooner, and outline a scenario for you where Novak could finish 2nd to that same person and lose his #1 ranking b/c of the points change. seems likely?

    you admitted in your first post that it was possible...and the 50% 1st, 50% 2nd is hyperbole. he could obviously lose before the quarters in some major, and still have an unbelievable year. what does that really change?

    the ATP rankings are retarded...plain and simple. there would be a million different (read: better) ways to compile rankings.

    EDIT--i'm sorry, but any rankings system that can allow a guy to win a tournament and LOSE ground on #2 is completely stupid. absolutely zero way you can convince me otherwise.

    basically it's dumb that they don't take past performance into the equation...novak raped the entire world last year, and the slate is wiped completely clean this year.
    Edited By: JRoth15 Jan 18th, 2012 at 06:29 AM
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  10.  
    Originally Posted by JRoth15 View Post

    lol yes...i'm going to go back through every tournament that Novak played last year, see who went out in the quarters or sooner, and outline a scenario for you where Novak could finish 2nd to that same person and lose his #1 ranking b/c of the points change. seems likely?

    All I was asking for is a very general hypothetical where this could happen and the person who takes over 1st place is not deserving of the ranking. It is a pretty simple thing to do, if it is possible. I just can't think of one.

     
    Originally Posted by JRoth15 View Post

    you admitted in your first post that it was possible...and the 50% 1st, 50% 2nd is hyperbole. he could obviously lose before the quarters in some major, and still have an unbelievable year. what does that really change?

    I admitted that it was possible in the 50% 1st/2nd example but I also said in every scenario where the rankings would switch it was justified and the person taking over 1st would have had a better all around year. I provided an example of this in which you quoted but seemed to ignore.

     
    Originally Posted by JRoth15 View Post


    the ATP rankings are retarded...plain and simple. there would be a million different (read: better) ways to compile rankings.

    EDIT--i'm sorry, but any rankings system that can allow a guy to win a tournament and LOSE ground on #2 is completely stupid. absolutely zero way you can convince me otherwise.

    It is completely fair. Say person A and person B play 10 tournaments during the year. This is how they finish.

    Person A: 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 3, 1, 4, 2, 4
    Person B: 10, 8, 4, 1, 6, 2, 3, 1, 1, 1

    It is clear that person A had a better year than Person B. Person A deserves to be ranked higher. It is also clear, while Person A is playing well, the first half of the year was better than the 2nd half. Person A is trending downward. Person B is clearly trending upward.

    I know this isn't how the rankings work exactly, but for analogy sake it works. Lets say the position you finish in the tournament is the number of points you get for that tournament and the person with lowest number of points wins, total for the year, is ranked #1.

    Person A scored 21 points over the year. Person B scored 37 points. A new year starts and in the first tournament person A wins it, defending his points, and person B finishes 2nd.

    Person A is not penalized from this. Person A still has 21 points over his last 10 tournaments. Person B loses 8 points (10th to 2nd) and now has 29 points. So you are saying that because the ground between person A and person B has now narrowed it is completely stupid? If no ground can be made up then you are not allowing for improvement to be factored in. If person A and B keep alternating 1sts and 2nds for the rest of their lives then player B will always be weighted down by that 10th place finish, even if it happened 10years prior. Furthermore, anybody that is older than another player and has played on tour longer and developed quicker will always be ahead of people behind them.

    EDIT*** If anything this system rewards the person in 1st if they have a great first half. Look at Djokovic. It was very clear for a few months before he took over the #1 ranking last year that he was the best player in the world. His recent results were unmatched but because Nadal had been playing better 8-12mo ago he still kept the #1 ranking for a few months when he was no longer the strongest player in the world.
    Edited By: qjuice14 Jan 18th, 2012 at 07:13 AM
     
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  11. I got your back qjuice.

    I think the tennis rankings are an excellent representation of who is playing best currently while taking an appropriate amount of recent history into consideration.

    Jroth and I just had a nice long discussion on the matter...we're gonna agree to disagree. If anyone is #1 at this same time next year and not named Novak, it's because they've had a year more deserving of being the top ranked player in the world, whether it's due to their excellent year or Novak falling off the face of the Earth.
     
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  12. Isner is just a serve, guy can't move!!

    Federers stocks just went up gettin a walk thru the first round.

    Lol at the fish fail too
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  13. Really hoping Donald Young pulls through this. He's so smooooooooth.
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  14. went to the matches yesterday and they are ridiculous about letting you return to your seats. we waited over 20min twice after returning with beers, just standing on the stairs by the stands. too quiet in the stands too, lotta hushing and shushing
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  15. Third round Roanic v Roddick will be awesome

    Too bad winner has to take on Novak...
     
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  16. Seriously, a 2 page tennis thread? Fuck me in the goat ass.
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  17. Anyone still awake and watching this Isner/Nalbandian match? Seriously entertaining...especially for an Isner match, lol.

    Leggo John!
     
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  18. epic shit, nalbandian seems like a crybaby after the 4th set loss. gotta go for amurrica on this one
     
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  19. Let's go Isner!!!
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  20. Great stuff.

    Nalbandian is killing himself. Lets go John
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  21. Nalbandian's face after that miss was fantastic. USA!
     1
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  22. Brutal call on that challenge, umpire ego trip
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  23. it was clearly out
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  24. Had no idea Bill Leavy was the chair ump for this match.

    Seriously, WTF. That's bullshit.
     
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  25. Did u get the eagle eye? They didn't show it on local tv
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  26.  
    Originally Posted by SlayNL View Post

    Did u get the eagle eye? They didn't show it on local tv

    Yes. A good inch wide.
     
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  27.  
    Originally Posted by SlayNL View Post

    Did u get the eagle eye? They didn't show it on local tv

    Ya. wasnt even close
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  28. Why couldnt he challenge the overrule?
     
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  29. That call was sfbad. All time bad. I dont know how you would be able to regroup after that.
     1
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  30.  
    Originally Posted by SaulGood View Post

    Why couldnt he challenge the overrule?

    lol, the ump thought he took too much time. Bullshit.
    Edited By: marinersheep Jan 18th, 2012 at 10:28 AM
     
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