[x]

Buying a house with a non-permitted Remodel

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 31 2 3
  1. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 5:32pm)

    I'm in the process of buying a house in MN that we've come to find out has had basement electrical, plumbing, wall construction remodel done without permits, they've also built a mud-closet onto the kitchen that's goes into the garage (takes some of the space) as well as installing a new furnace, windows, and dishwasher without permits as well.

    We're nervous that after buying the house the city could make us pay for after-work permits/fines and if a fire were started due to the basement wiring our insurance may not cover the loss.

    Does anyone have any experience with this? Anyone know any good RE attorneys in the Twin Cities?
     
  2. poker4tuition poker4tuition is offline

    Spring Lake, MI
    United States

    Posts: 1,014
    Joined: Dec 05

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 5:47pm) in reply to time4badbeat

    I'm a LO so don't have specific insight into this as far as legality.

    What I can say is that you should use this as leverage to drop the offer on the house. The house you are purchasing is less marketable because of this and any potential buyer is going to offer accordingly.

    How did you find out about all of these additions?
  3. Mr. Blonde Mr. Blonde is online now Supreme Moderator

    Georgetown, DE
    United States

    Posts: 28,246
    Joined: Sep 05

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 5:53pm) in reply to poker4tuition

    A thorough home inspection should cover your ass. I don't see any reason you would be responsible for work done by the previous owner. I would say 90% of interior remodels don't get permits, just because they don't want to pay for them or the hassle. Outside stuff is different, cause you got code enforcers driving around trying to make his quota and looking for people working w/o a permit. I wouldn't sweat it unless your home inspector starts throwing up warning signs. You pay him to find the shit thats wrong and tell you about it. Should take a minimum of a few hours to go through your house, and you should tag along the whole way.
     
  4. Dyzalot Dyzalot is offline

    Candia, NH
    United States

    Posts: 20,317
    Joined: May 05

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 5:55pm) in reply to Mr. Blonde

    Permits for dishwashers... and people say we need more regulation...
     3
  5. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 5:58pm) in reply to Dyzalot

    IMPORTANT thing I forgot to add - the Sellers didn't say anything about non-permitted work in the disclosure
     
    Thread Starter
  6. Niceguy Niceguy is offline I will find you.

    NV
    United States

    Posts: 25,249
    Joined: Jul 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 5:59pm) in reply to time4badbeat

     
    Originally Posted by time4badbeat View Post

    IMPORTANT thing I forgot to add - the Sellers didn't say anything about non-permitted work in the disclosure

    That's your out. Pick a new house.
  7. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:03pm) in reply to Dyzalot

    Ya - Dyz - the list of shit you need a permit for is ridiculous, you never own anything in this country

    Curious too that since they failed to disclose a material defect (installation of furnace w/out permit) that we could be entitled to have our $375 inspection fee paid for us if we back out.
     
    Thread Starter
  8. NUTZREALHUGE NUTZREALHUGE is online now

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 3,688
    Joined: Oct 05

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:06pm) in reply to time4badbeat

    permits are such a fucking scam. the costs vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and there are no uniform regulations or requirements generally. the worst place i found was boulder...they wanted $950 for the permits to install solar pv on a house. 950 fucking dollars to have some asshat who doesnt even go up on the roof to check shit, takes 5 minutes to look at the inverter/service panel etc and signs a paper and thats it. roofing permits are an even bigger joke. those inspectors rarely leave even leave their trucks.

    its just another way to be taxed by your local government.
  9. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:13pm) in reply to NUTZREALHUGE

    I'm less worried about the actual work being performed and more worried about the liability that comes with purchasing a home w/unpermitted remodels (from what I've read, once you buy, you are solely responsible for all work)

    I do agree, some of the things are ridiculous money making schemes for the city.
     
    Thread Starter
  10. IX Equilibrium IX Equilibrium is offline

    Paradise Valley, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 1,441
    Joined: Aug 11

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:16pm) in reply to time4badbeat

    My dad was a building and home inspector I'll ask him and see what he says
  11. Moonlight Graham Moonlight Graham is offline

    PA
    United States

    Posts: 7,018
    Joined: Mar 09

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:16pm) in reply to IX Equilibrium

    i'm with blonde. If you have a thorough inspection done you should be good. And you're realtor should know if you face any issues after purchase.
  12. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:20pm) in reply to Moonlight Graham

    TBH our Realtor is kind of worthless - tempted to set up some time and have a RE lawyer look over all our documents and give us some advice but damn that's probably another $500+

    Guess that's my next question if this falls through, how do you fire your Realtor?
     
    Thread Starter
  13. OldGrowth OldGrowth is offline

    Scottsdale, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 2,171
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:30pm) in reply to time4badbeat

     
    Originally Posted by time4badbeat View Post

    TBH our Realtor is kind of worthless - tempted to set up some time and have a RE lawyer look over all our documents and give us some advice but damn that's probably another $500+

    Guess that's my next question if this falls through, how do you fire your Realtor?

    might be the best 5 hundy you ever spent.
  14. chocolatecamo chocolatecamo is offline

    Canada

    Posts: 1,113
    Joined: Jan 09

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 6:35pm) in reply to OldGrowth

    Crawl out of your safety bubble and buy the house
  15. DAWS DAWS is offline OT's Youngest Grandpa

    Southington, CT
    United States

    Posts: 956
    Joined: Dec 07

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 7:21pm) in reply to chocolatecamo

    city hall told me rule of thunb is anything over $100 in cost should require a permit. laughed in their face. don't get me wrong, i pulled co's to install my pellet stove and fireplace insert, but gimme a break with any $100 upgrade needing a permit.
  16. Willywoo Willywoo is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

    Posts: 19,748
    Joined: Jan 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 7:43pm) in reply to DAWS

    It won't be pleasant when you go to sell it. Obviously something like non permitted work must be disclosed. I wonder why the seller forgot to mention it?

    Run away.

    If you really want this particular house, have the seller get it into compliance before you buy it.
    Edited By: Willywoo May 5th, 2012 at 07:44 PM
  17. Niceguy Niceguy is offline I will find you.

    NV
    United States

    Posts: 25,249
    Joined: Jul 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 7:46pm) in reply to chocolatecamo

     
    Originally Posted by chocolatecamo View Post

    Crawl out of your safety bubble and buy the house

    Thousands in fines, thousands in permits then thousands to bring everything up to code. Sounds like solid purchase.
  18. saxman saxman is online now

    Posts: 16,814
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 7:54pm) in reply to Niceguy

    I would go with what Blonde said for the most part - hire a home inspector to make sure everything is up to code - make a conditional offer based on this. i'm sure a reputable real-estate agent and lawyer familiar with this would also make sure you are free and clear before you take ownership
  19. chocolatecamo chocolatecamo is offline

    Canada

    Posts: 1,113
    Joined: Jan 09

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 8:18pm) in reply to saxman

    like someone else said most homes have unpermitted work. i've never heard of anyone getting one and i'm a trade contractor for fuck sakes
  20. LeftyMark LeftyMark is online now Pee Wee's Big Adventure

    MA
    United States

    Posts: 24,184
    Joined: Jan 07

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 8:23pm) in reply to chocolatecamo

    A permit to install a dishwasher? Holy shit.
  21. ohiogary ohiogary is offline

    Beebe, AR
    United States

    Posts: 1,525
    Joined: Jul 07

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 8:30pm) in reply to LeftyMark

    Just my opinion here and i think theres plenty of other houses out there where you won't face these possible headaches. Take your time , make sure the house gets inspected and you could even request the homeowners to repair , or put up a certain amount towards the repairs. Good luck.
  22. allisswell allisswell is offline

    MN
    United States

    Posts: 552
    Joined: Aug 07

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 10:20pm) in reply to ohiogary

    Hey, what part of MN. Has there been anyone living in the house the past year?
  23. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 10:41pm) in reply to allisswell

    New brighton, north of st.paul, ya the family in it bought it in 2003 for 227500 and it was sold in 98 for $125k, I'm guessing that the basement remodel took place before the current owners bought it that's why they are like what
     
    Thread Starter
  24. Moonlight Graham Moonlight Graham is offline

    PA
    United States

    Posts: 7,018
    Joined: Mar 09

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 11:05pm) in reply to time4badbeat

    How did you find out the work was done without a permit? Why did someone go looking for that in the first place? ..anyway, maybe you can pay a township inspector to inspect it and sign off somehow.
  25. allisswell allisswell is offline

    MN
    United States

    Posts: 552
    Joined: Aug 07

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 11:08pm) in reply to time4badbeat

    So, has anyone been living there in the last year?
  26. cmval cmval is offline

    Posts: 13,279
    Joined: Sep 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 11:12pm) in reply to allisswell

    personally I would gtfo but you MUST have a home inspection done

    unless you are in the building or construction industry do not go by your gut...get an expert to tell you what you need to know
  27. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 11:35pm) in reply to allisswell

     
    Originally Posted by allisswell View Post

    So, has anyone been living there in the last year?

    Yes a family is currently living there.

    We have had a home inspection and the inspector called some things out like interesting material used in plumbing, outlets having reverse polarity and not being grounded and the furnace not having an outside air combustion intake. Based upon that I called up the city to see what permits they had applied for and found that the only recent one was one in '92 to put on a new roof.
     
    Thread Starter
  28. Niceguy Niceguy is offline I will find you.

    NV
    United States

    Posts: 25,249
    Joined: Jul 06

    May 5th, 2012 (5/5/2012 11:37pm) in reply to time4badbeat

    So really you know you should gtfo but your wife really likes the house?
  29. time4badbeat time4badbeat is offline

    WI
    United States

    Posts: 4,995
    Joined: Nov 06

    May 6th, 2012 (5/6/2012 12:15am) in reply to Niceguy

    To be honest we both really like it, fits our needs and price perfectly we are just really scared to open ourselves up to the potential liability
     
    Thread Starter
  30. Moonlight Graham Moonlight Graham is offline

    PA
    United States

    Posts: 7,018
    Joined: Mar 09

    May 6th, 2012 (5/6/2012 1:19am) in reply to time4badbeat

    If you really want to purchase the home, you need to put a price on the potential liability, and ask for that much off the asking price. That number could be real big, and they might not be able to budge as much as you need to cover that liability.
Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 31 2 3