should have prayed to God, IMO

zomg! so inhumane! that's pretty much the same thing as saddam's rape rooms! we really are as bad as the terrorists! hahahaha

will hitchens turn into a terrorist "we created"?

breaking top al-queda scum in 30 seconds > crying about the huuuumaaaaaaaaaanity of it all

I gotta side with norcal here. Some forms of torture are needed to keep us safe. It should be used sparringly and it should be authorized from high command. and it should be done secretly. There should be no GITMO's. They should be completely secret prisons

this guy came to my school for a talk and it was fucking awesome haha .. i love this guy .. hes fucking genius .. some dude called him out of the crowd like some1 always does and he fucking demolished this guy .. it was awesome .. CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS FTW! ... im honored to have 1 of his books signed

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

I gotta side with norcal here. Some forms of torture are needed to keep us safe. It should be used sparringly and it should be authorized from high command. and it should be done secretly. There should be no GITMO's. They should be completely secret prisons

Why stop there? I think the fed govt (aka high command) should be allowed to torture any American they suspect of wrong doing and clearly it should be done secretly. That's how we get things done in a free and open society.

Secret prisons = the tenets of American democracy imo

norcal you are a true hero for sitting behind your pc all day advocating torture

I dunno, crazy, that might be taking it a bit far, no?

on the other hand, good point. using waterboarding 6 times on top level al-queda leaders is pretty much the same as secretly torturing americans willy-nilly. man, it's practically nazi germany around here I tells ya!

"torturing" a few guys = worse than hitler obv.

sorry 36, I've applied for the job of toturer for the US but alas there's a waiting list for the 2 positions. oh wells?

lol @ "torture". "Worst 12 seconds of my life man!" looooool

 

Originally Posted by norcaljeff

I dunno, crazy, that might be taking it a bit far, no?

on the other hand, good point. using waterboarding 6 times on top level al-queda leaders is pretty much the same as secretly torturing americans willy-nilly. man, it's practically nazi germany around here I tells ya!

"torturing" a few guys = worse than hitler obv.

Well, logically if the waterboarding of 6 top level al-qaeda operatives has been as successful in foiling terrorist plots as you claim it has(but shockingly do not cite), then wouldn't the next step be to implement similar practices in other realms? I'm just saying... I'm not saying...

 

Originally Posted by norcaljeff

sorry 36, I've applied for the job of toturer for the US but alas there's a waiting list for the 2 positions. oh wells?

lol @ "torture". "Worst 12 seconds of my life man!" looooool

how can anyone take anything you say seriously??? youre just such a tool.

uh-oh, sounds like we got a "bush did 9/11" post coming up. kook much?

torture is unacceptable and counterproductive, period. We're supposed to be the good guys.

 

Originally Posted by Reech

torture is unacceptable and counterproductive, period. We're supposed to be the good guys.

I hope you say that when they find your child's kidnapper.

because the families of victims of horrible crimes are in a great state of mind making them the perfect arbiters of justice...

 

Originally Posted by norcaljeff

no, that's how we were able to capture top terrorists and foil plots. is your google broken?

I assure you that my Google works just fine. It is my belief that your viewpoint of this situation is short-sighted, and while it adheres to the letter of the law, it completely ignores the spirit of the agreement.

While it is correct that the treatment of these detainees is not a violation of the Cruel & Unusual Punishment Clause, that doesn't necessarily mean that no torture has occured or that it is justifiable if it has. Before coming to my current law firm, I had the priviledge of working with a criminal defense/human rights attorney who has done a great deal of Pro Bono work on behalf one of the GTMO detainees. While I can't say that I know the specifics of every case, every detainee, and every instance of torture/extreme interrogation/whatever you want to call it, I learned a great deal about this particular case and the way in which the government handles these types of cases in general.

There is zero doubt in my mind whatsoever that the detainee in the case I worked on was guilty of a horrendous crime, and should be punished accordingly. And he has received punishment, but it isn't the right kind. The manner in which this detainee was dealt with goes against many principles this great country was founded upon, and isn't at all in line with the ideals that we as a nation supposedly stand for. Just because he's the scum of the Earth, doesn't mean it's worth shitting on the Constitution to give him what he deserves. Why shouldn't he have a trial? If you don't believe the government treats detainees in an unconstitutional fashion, read some of the case documents that have been declassified and you may change your mind.

I'm a big fan of the Bill of Rights, but when the government begins to do things that mess with essential freedoms and disregard due process where it sees fit to do so (with or without the consent of the citizens), it doesn't just hurt the detainees but it hurts the whole country. Imo Ben Frankin said it best: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Cliff's notes: You're ignorant.