Originally Posted by 36crazyfists

Haha right he's not hinting around his usual class warfare talking points at all...

Your perception is obv skewed for some reason. I'll agree his point was poorly worded, but the point itself is rather clear.

 

Originally Posted by niptuck

Cstomers don't build a business. It is nice to say that but lets face it YOU built the business, they came and bought something from YOU because YOU took the risk and opened the business.

Or are you saying that you were sitting on your couch one day and a bunch of people showed up and asked you to sell them something? Then they did all the work of loaning you money, signing for the bank guaranee personally, they came up with what you were going to offer them to sell without your input, they rented your building, they filed all necessary paperwork with the local and Federal authorities, they handle all of your accounting and hiring and firing and marketing decisions..............then I guess THEY really built your business

our idea and our money. but i would say that the community is 80% responsible for our success and we are 20% responsible. roughly.

 

Originally Posted by Realbigfish4

Your perception is obv skewed for some reason. I'll agree his point was poorly worded, but the point itself is rather clear.

I guess his point could be that your children are not really YOURS...I mean you probablly drove on a road to the hospital and it was the gov't that made that road (I guess with gvt $ idk where that comes from) so your baby wouldn't be possible without the govt so hand over the kids to DC.

 

Originally Posted by niptuck

I guess his point could be that your children are not really YOURS...I mean you probablly drove on a road to the hospital and it was the gov't that made that road (I guess with gvt $ idk where that comes from) so your baby wouldn't be possible without the govt so hand over the kids to DC.

Holy fuck, youre a complete moron... Nothing like some nut job attempting to equate being a business owner to parenthood. It's not like hundreds or thousands of consumers had to purchase neurons during the growth of a baby...

 

Originally Posted by killingbird

people like niptuck make me so ashamed to be an American. It sucks being the laughing stock of the world.

Italy or Greece might be a good fit for you.

I know you will be missed dearly.

 

Originally Posted by killingbird

his statement makes complete sense to me. I own my own business, but I didn't to it all on my own. I had the support of friends and family, I had to hire programmers and accountants and lawyers to help. Of course their are my business partners. Doubt their are too many businesses out their that succeeded because of one person and one person only.

All that being said, is socialism bad? I kind of enjoy it.

I find it interesting that all of the people you listed are not the government and that at least some of them you had to hire to assist you with laws and regulations.

And of course people have help building their businesses, from not only the people you named, but banks/investors and consumers as well and it is all accomplished within the system we have and of course there is government involvement in that, but to discount the individual effort of a person that creates something is wrong whether they navigate the government maze for financial assistance or do it with private help, it is wrong. imo

The president's comments are more a reflection of his basic philosophy that the collective element of a society is far more important than any individual, but we already knew that. It is refreshing to come right out and say it though. I guess if I thought people didn't build their own businesses and that someone else did I would have no problem redistributing wealth. In fact that would be the cornerstone of my economic policy.

Even Karl Marx recognized that some individuals contribute to the good of society more than others and like the president says, they have an obligation to share their society generated wealth with others.

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". Good thing there are lots of smart and hard working people out there because this is going to be a big job.

We are not even having a capitalism v. socialism debate anymore. It is merely a debate over how to distribute the wealth and then redistribute it. Since the government or society is responsible for an individual obtaining their wealth it isn't really even theirs to begin with, ie; the initial distribution; the people chosen by government through tax breaks incentives etc. to create some wealth are simply stewards of that wealth until it can be then redistributed as government sees fit.

So, the questions we left to deal with are how to distribute wealth initially and then how to redistribute it. Politics, not the good of society will determine how the wealth gets distributed. This is where lobbyists and campaign contributions and forms of graft and corruption will assist in these determinations. Once that is accomplished, that will be battles for a little while, but eventually because more voters are takers more and more wealth will be given back to government for redistribution. It really makes sense that if an individual is not primarily responsible for creating their wealth, it shouldn't be something they are allowed to keep for themselves.

The overall plan for redistribution is something you rarely hear politicians talk about in an overall sense. Like most things government does, it piece meals the taking of wealth on a case by case basis under the argument that whatever it is is necessary for the good of everyone. Healthcare, corporate welfare, military spending, social programs, education and of course the best default position, it is for the children.

It is statements like this one by the president that really make me want to read what he wrote in college and law school, rather than a half fiction autobiography. We are getting scammed so hard right now. lol

when he says "you didnt build that. i believe he is talking about the roads and bridges and stuff, not the business. it is a confusing sentence tho.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

It is statements like this one by the president that really make me want to read what he wrote in college and law school, rather than a half fiction autobiography. We are getting scammed so hard right now. lol

Once again you gracefully explain our current state. I'd love to see more on your ideas on a solution and ideas of what will provide the greatest growth both domestically and globally.

doesnt niptuck sell cars or own a dealership? somebody else did kind of build his business and the roads and bridges that other people built are kind of helping him out too.

 

Originally Posted by 36crazyfists

it's really incomprehensible that everyone doesn't have a successful business.

now THIS I agree with. I've made this argument in the past, but nobody agreed with me.

 

Originally Posted by Realbigfish4

Gotta love the all or nothing mentallity that so many have allowed our two party system to instill in them.

What does this even mean? Just bc I realize that Mittens Romney is the our only hope as a nation doesn't mean you should get all personal and shit.

 

Originally Posted by 36crazyfists

What does this even mean? Just bc I realize that Mittens Romney is the our only hope as a nation doesn't mean you should get all personal and shit.

you do realize our nation is going to be fine whoever wins the next election, and prob will be fine the election after that as well.

and it amazes that nobody sees that he isnt referring to the "business" when he says "that", he is taking about roads, bridges, etc.

everyone just take a deep breath.

 

Originally Posted by killingbird

I was actually just trying to guess what someone as uneducated as NipTuck would do for a living. Car salesman sounds about right.

Not enough risks in that

 

Originally Posted by killingbird

people like niptuck make me so ashamed to be an American. It sucks being the laughing stock of the world.

You are ashamed to be an American? wow.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". Good thing there are lots of smart and hard working people out there because this is going to be a big job.

Sigh. Really hate this quote, because it bypasses the central tenant of Marx's philosophy and just gives you "the headline". FWIW, when mark used this quote he already presupposed that a shift in cultural consciousness had taken place and capitalism had been overthrown, at that point only could they extoll "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". It would be a misrepresentation of his entire philosophy, to think that he wanted forced upon a society. Marx thought that Capitalism needed to run it's course and OBV based on the current political discourse it has not.

Good post tho Willy