No, I don't agree with it because it goes against everything that is a free market. The fucking markets are broke, stop trying to keep a fallen tree standing imo.

If they keep on putting those dumb F-150 commericals with Denis Leary, then hell no. Get back to work GAVIN!

I dont agree with bailing them out..let the free market figure it out. Its not like an more efficient player wont move in and fill the void with a better product and jobs...the only public money I agree with is for research and product developement for more fuel effecient or nongas relient vehicles.

 

Originally Posted by LVpokerdealer

50billion doesn't seem like that much to save 100k+ jobs

how long will those jobs be saved for?

 

Originally Posted by LVpokerdealer

if you don't bail em out, unemployment hits +10% i'm guessing. But I doubt they starve to death

true but wouln't someone buy the factories and start building something again? so temporary imo.

 

Originally Posted by LVpokerdealer

where does the bailing out stop? that 750billion package is going to be atleast 1.5 trillion when this is all said and done, maybe even more.

i think if we want to completly scratch the books, which will prolly be what happens it will cost between 3.5-5 trillion. what do i think? i am a free market guy and accept that recessions are a natural part of the process of the business cycle. gov't intervention just makes things worse and more drawn out. you can point out all the negatives of what is going to happen but i argue that it will happen anyways. maybe we get out of this for now and then we hit hyperinflation down the road because of the actions and it negates all short-term positives. after the great depression it took til like 1954 before the market recovered to it's previous highs.

f gov't intervention

No Bailouts!!!!!!!!

 

Originally Posted by saxman

Different slant on this.... North American companies have been complaining for years that there isn't a level playing field b/c foreign companies have government support (subsidized industries). China has just announced that they're throwing another 480 BILLION at their economy to try and keep things going. Pretty much every major power is doing this right now to stem off a global recession. If the US decides not to intervene and help American businesses, doesnt this just make the problem worse (unfair competition)? And closing the borders to foreign trade really isnt a viable option b/c the global economies are so deeply entwined. I don't necessarily agree with blindly throwing money at failing businesses but I don't like the alternative either.

concur

Flies in the face of a number of trade agreements with other free market economies. EU should boycott US products or impose ridiculous tariffs on US products if this happens.

FWIW I know you all don't care what anyone else thinks, but you do need us (and vice versa). EU won't have the balls to do anything though.

the American auto industry is responsible for more than 2.5 million American jobs. good luck when all those people are out of work in the next year. What do you think a sudden rush of 2.5 million unemployed people will do to our service economy. think those 2.5 million people will be out spending money.

not saying that I agree with bailouts but to run around and say no bailouts without considering the implications is silly and irresponsible.

 

Originally Posted by jdsas

But I say let them stand or fall on their own. No one goes and bails out a resteraunt or a retail shop when they go down. Its just zero's to the bottom line that scares everyone into bailing these dips out.

I agree that on the surface its not fair but the problem is that restaurant and retail businesses are service sector jobs that tend to be on the low end of pay scale. We're replacing many of our good paying industrial sector jobs with low paying service sector jobs and quite frankly, most people can't survive today on $10/hour. The other issue with this is that most of the goods that come from the retail sector are also manufactured off-shore. Take a look at the labels the next time you buy something at Wal-Mart or any other corporate retailer. The materials used to make those products didn't come from North America and the labour that was used to assemble them didn't come from North America either. It's a vicious circle IMO.

Seriously, do you think if the Congress doesn't give the auto industry this money, that on a date certain 2.5 million people lose their jobs and cars stop getting made?
Let them fail. Go into bankruptcy, reorganize and restructure back into a viable business again. The Dems don't want it to happen because they don't want to be saddled with this occuring on their watch.

The real problem with the auto industry failure is that almost certainly, we, the taxpayers, will be saddled with the massive pension plans that the companies can no longer afford and will guarantee them going forward.

 

Originally Posted by LVpokerdealer

50billion doesn't seem like that much to save 100k+ jobs

ummm....you do realize that is 500k per job, right?

These companies need to go bankrupt and restructure. No bailout will make their businesses viable or turn their consecutive quarters streak of operating losses into sudden profitability. They're burning through unbelieveable amounts of cash already. Let them fail!

ps. just so you know last week's unemployment report listed job losses of a little less than 250k. GM, the largest American car maker, employs roughly 266,000 people. If everyone at GM lost their job tomorrow we would still be no where near 10% unemployment.

Clay, I know you're one of the good guys, but you should look into the real numbers more often. You can get basically any data series you want if you look around the net. You can find most of them at the various regional fed bank's websites, too.

Between the US and Canada, it would mean millions of jobs.

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

lol at all the numbers being thrown around. it's a hell of a lot more than 100k jobs.

As for bigjohn, I'm not saying they should be bailed out, merely stating the economic impact it will have on our economy. Even if the do file bankruptcy, I don't think it's possible for them to compete going forward. They are not innovative and are dinosaurs. While everyone else was going gren they were building the biggest SUVs possible. And even though everyone was snapping them up, they were not making a profit.

RIP American auto industry.

If you want to talk about economic impact let's talk about inflated car pricing for the last hundred years. Inflated housing prices. These situations were bred by greedy fucks like Ford, GM and these banks and compounded over years. What you're seeing today is the inevitable bitch-slap from long-broken markets. Karma is a fucking cunt.

well FWIW I had a Dodge Avenger for my first car. Had it for like 7 or 8 years and never had a major problem with it. have had my Pontiac Grad Am for a little more than four years and no major problems with it (knock on wood).

please dont invest ANY money in most of these auto makers, their board of directors/top management is awful and that is why they are losing money. you will have to come up with a whole new management team, which is a big risk. but an even bigger risk is investing in some car makers and letting them keep their current management/board of directors.