50billion doesn't seem like that much to save 100k+ jobs...if you don't bail em out, unemployment hits +10% i'm guessing. But I doubt they starve to death...

where does the bailing out stop? that 750billion package is going to be atleast 1.5 trillion when this is all said and done, maybe even more.

thoughts?

ud pwns my soul

No, I don't agree with it because it goes against everything that is a free market. The fucking markets are broke, stop trying to keep a fallen tree standing imo.

I agree Jecht, also moar stimulus checks soon plz.

im not in favor of any bailout

my father in law owns a pretty sucessful business

if he makes bad decisions that arent profitable who is gonna bail him out?

I mean i guess i dont understand why this is only for big banks and the auto industry. Why cant small scale business get bailed out if they fail. But like I said Im not in favor of any sort of bailouts.

I dont agree with bailing them out..let the free market figure it out. Its not like an more efficient player wont move in and fill the void with a better product and jobs...the only public money I agree with is for research and product developement for more fuel effecient or nongas relient vehicles.

how long will those jobs be saved for?

true but wouln't someone buy the factories and start building something again? so temporary imo.

i think if we want to completly scratch the books, which will prolly be what happens it will cost between 3.5-5 trillion. what do i think? i am a free market guy and accept that recessions are a natural part of the process of the business cycle. gov't intervention just makes things worse and more drawn out. you can point out all the negatives of what is going to happen but i argue that it will happen anyways. maybe we get out of this for now and then we hit hyperinflation down the road because of the actions and it negates all short-term positives. after the great depression it took til like 1954 before the market recovered to it's previous highs.

f gov't intervention

I'm against this bailout and the earlier one.

No Bailouts!!!!!!!!

Different slant on this.... North American companies have been complaining for years that there isn't a level playing field b/c foreign companies have government support (subsidized industries). China has just announced that they're throwing another 480 BILLION at their economy to try and keep things going. Pretty much every major power is doing this right now to stem off a global recession. If the US decides not to intervene and help American businesses, doesnt this just make the problem worse (unfair competition)? And closing the borders to foreign trade really isnt a viable option b/c the global economies are so deeply entwined. I don't necessarily agree with blindly throwing money at failing businesses but I don't like the alternative either.

I am a little put out that the gov. wants to keep bailing out failing industries that are failing because they are victims of the market; IE not keeping up with others in the industry. And terrified that they are gonna muck up the health care industry at the same time.

The two i am thinking of are the auto industry and the banks. I think the short term economic impact is going to be hard to deal with.

But I say let them stand or fall on their own. No one goes and bails out a resteraunt or a retail shop when they go down. Its just zero's to the bottom line that scares everyone into bailing these dips out.

Now, i know the health care industry is far from perfect. But at least it is healthy ( pun intended)

Flies in the face of a number of trade agreements with other free market economies. EU should boycott US products or impose ridiculous tariffs on US products if this happens.

FWIW I know you all don't care what anyone else thinks, but you do need us (and vice versa). EU won't have the balls to do anything though.

Imo, they got themselves into this mess they shud have to get themselves out.
Also if every other commercial on tv wasnt a ford commercial they prob would b much mo betta off.

the American auto industry is responsible for more than 2.5 million American jobs. good luck when all those people are out of work in the next year. What do you think a sudden rush of 2.5 million unemployed people will do to our service economy. think those 2.5 million people will be out spending money.

not saying that I agree with bailouts but to run around and say no bailouts without considering the implications is silly and irresponsible.

No Bailouts!!!

I agree that on the surface its not fair but the problem is that restaurant and retail businesses are service sector jobs that tend to be on the low end of pay scale. We're replacing many of our good paying industrial sector jobs with low paying service sector jobs and quite frankly, most people can't survive today on $10/hour. The other issue with this is that most of the goods that come from the retail sector are also manufactured off-shore. Take a look at the labels the next time you buy something at Wal-Mart or any other corporate retailer. The materials used to make those products didn't come from North America and the labour that was used to assemble them didn't come from North America either. It's a vicious circle IMO.

btw - i do find it humorous that once again the politicians and the media have teamed up to form a new term for us all to better swallow the pill.
delete: bail-out
insert: economic stimulus package

Seriously, do you think if the Congress doesn't give the auto industry this money, that on a date certain 2.5 million people lose their jobs and cars stop getting made?
Let them fail. Go into bankruptcy, reorganize and restructure back into a viable business again. The Dems don't want it to happen because they don't want to be saddled with this occuring on their watch.

The real problem with the auto industry failure is that almost certainly, we, the taxpayers, will be saddled with the massive pension plans that the companies can no longer afford and will guarantee them going forward.

they should rename it: Dragging out what's inevitable, while making it worse.

ummm....you do realize that is 500k per job, right?

These companies need to go bankrupt and restructure. No bailout will make their businesses viable or turn their consecutive quarters streak of operating losses into sudden profitability. They're burning through unbelieveable amounts of cash already. Let them fail!

ps. just so you know last week's unemployment report listed job losses of a little less than 250k. GM, the largest American car maker, employs roughly 266,000 people. If everyone at GM lost their job tomorrow we would still be no where near 10% unemployment.

Clay, I know you're one of the good guys, but you should look into the real numbers more often. You can get basically any data series you want if you look around the net. You can find most of them at the various regional fed bank's websites, too.

lol at all the numbers being thrown around. it's a hell of a lot more than 100k jobs.

As for bigjohn, I'm not saying they should be bailed out, merely stating the economic impact it will have on our economy. Even if the do file bankruptcy, I don't think it's possible for them to compete going forward. They are not innovative and are dinosaurs. While everyone else was going gren they were building the biggest SUVs possible. And even though everyone was snapping them up, they were not making a profit.

RIP American auto industry.

Between the US and Canada, it would mean millions of jobs.

If you want to talk about economic impact let's talk about inflated car pricing for the last hundred years. Inflated housing prices. These situations were bred by greedy fucks like Ford, GM and these banks and compounded over years. What you're seeing today is the inevitable bitch-slap from long-broken markets. Karma is a fucking cunt.

I dunno, everyone I know refuses to buy American cars here because they fail miserably. Everyone buys foreign cars (in my circle). From luxury to standard, none of us owns an American car. The reason, they stink, they fail too quickly, and every single one of us has a horror story concerning an American car.

Perhaps what I have described above does not occur near others, I dunno, but I'll never buy another American car in my lifetime as long as I can buy a foreign one.

Maybe if they freaking made a better product they would sell more of their inventory and not be in such a bad way. I dunno, but making a shitty product, not competing with the industry (foreign imports) seems to be a great way to fail your business.

If we bail them out, who is to say they will "change" their business model and stop making such garbage product that people refuse to buy. But that is just my 2 cents.
My opinion means little and I'm sure that government does not really have a choice but to try to support the industry and save those jobs.

well FWIW I had a Dodge Avenger for my first car. Had it for like 7 or 8 years and never had a major problem with it. have had my Pontiac Grad Am for a little more than four years and no major problems with it (knock on wood).

Had a Dodge K-car (forget the model, it was a box on wheels). When it got cold the engine wouldn't run. Had a Pontiac that had a design flaw with the disc breaks, the calipers would ride the discs and wear them down to fast... F-hanging calipers.

Had a Dodge Caravan, engine practically fell through the front end of the car, well, not really but it never ran properly and was sold quickly. Had two mitsubishi's and have had them in the shop 0 times.

My best friend has owned two mustangs that caused him nothing but trouble. Then bought that sport caddy, nothing but trouble, he now drives a bmw.

My company gave me a caddilac as my fleet car for sales calls. Drove it five times and things have broken on it 2 of the 5 times I have driven it. Currently it has not run in two weeks because the radio unit is draining the battery every night and I got tired of trying to jump it. Going to sell it and get a foreign car to replace it. Ugh, never had one American car that worked right. 0 for 4 in my lifetime.

please dont invest ANY money in most of these auto makers, their board of directors/top management is awful and that is why they are losing money. you will have to come up with a whole new management team, which is a big risk. but an even bigger risk is investing in some car makers and letting them keep their current management/board of directors.