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  1. Anyone have thoughts on this?

    Do you think that there is such a thing as enlightenment or spiritual awakening?

    Do you think that these are all one in the same, more or less? Are they completely separate?

    Do you think that religious ideas come from schizophrenic/bipolar people?

    etc.

    Discuss.
     
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  2. Nice can of worms, Sir. Did you watch the biology of religion video of Robert Sapolsky lecturing that I posted a couple of weeks ago? It pretty much covered this topic and is quite frankly one of the best videos I've seen on religion. I wish I was a student of Sapolsky. I'd prolly sit in his classroom and skeet.

    Edit: I'll repost in case you missed it. Also, here's a link to the outline of the lecture notes and topics covered:

    http://blip.tv/file/2204956

    <embed mce_src="http://blip.tv/play/AYGHoAKXoHo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="300" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" src="http://blip.tv/play/AYGHoAKXoHo">
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  3.  
    Originally Posted by Seykota View Post

    Nice can of worms, Sir. Did you watch the evolutionary biology video of Robert Sapolsky lecturing that I posted a couple of weeks ago? It pretty much covered this topic and is quite frankly one of the best videos I've seen on religion.

    link?
     
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  4.  
    Originally Posted by marinersheep View Post


    Do you think that religious ideas come from schizophrenic/bipolar people?

    Ask theczar. He should be experiencing this if he still hasn't slept yet.
     
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  5.  
    Originally Posted by marinersheep View Post


    Do you think that religious ideas come from schizophrenic/bipolar people?

    etc.

    Discuss.

    And to answer this question, yes, in some cases. The video I posted goes through a history of various religions where this has been documented. However, it was schizotypals (milder form of schizo behavior) and obsessive compulsive people that seems to be noted the most.
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  6. This is similar to one of my favorite quotes from &quot;House&quot;

    Dr. Greg House: &quot;Isn't it interesting... religious behavior is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart? You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.&quot;
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  7.  
    Originally Posted by Seykota View Post


    And to answer this question, yes, in some cases. The video I posted goes through a history of various religions where this has been documented. However, it was schizotypals (milder form of schizo behavior) and obsessive compulsive people that seems to be noted the most.

    Do you think the ideas from these people are total bullshit and that these are just chemical imbalances/problems?

    Do you think that, despite these dysfunctions in the brain, that there is any validity to ideas and claims?
     
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  8. That's for societal norms to decide isn't it? It seems society accepts some and rejects others.
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  9.  
    Originally Posted by Seykota View Post

    I'd prolly sit in his classroom and skeet.

    link?

    Edit: and oh, I'm Type 1 bipolar and the biggest atheist you'll ever meet. Well, maybe not the biggest, but there's a piece of evidence against the theory that religious ideas &quot;come from&quot; schizo/bipolar people. I'm not even sure what that means, lol.

    Edit2: This video is clear blasphemy. This guy talks about evolution as if it's fact. Doesn't he know it's just a theory!
     
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  10.  
    Originally Posted by aheggem View Post

    link?

    Edit: and oh, I'm Type 1 bipolar and the biggest atheist you'll ever meet. Well, maybe not the biggest, but there's a piece of evidence against the theory that religious ideas &quot;come from&quot; schizo/bipolar people. I'm not even sure what that means, lol.

    I'm talking about schizophrenic or bipolar manic outbursts, not just being bipolar. You can be bipolar and never have what is a bipolar manic outburst. It's this experience that is normally associated with spiritual awakening of sort.
     
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  11. it basically seems that if u think the body is simply a complex machine, with billions of parts then any behavior is a result of how that machine is working. any thoughts would be the result of chemical reactions that we have no control over.

    if u believe there is a higher consciousness that experiences the physical world through the body, then i would think enlightenment, meaning a greater connection with this higher consciousness is possible. any resulting chemical reactions would prob be due to the thought that was placed in the brain thru higher conscious.

    i lean towards the latter.. (i always get former/latter confused, the 2nd one is how i lean)
     
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  12.  
    Originally Posted by marinersheep View Post

    I'm talking about schizophrenic or bipolar manic outbursts, not just being bipolar. You can be bipolar and never have what is a bipolar manic outburst. It's this experience that is normally associated with spiritual awakening of sort.

    Ok. Well, I've had one. And it definitely seems like enlightenment, but you can begin to tell it's not a real sort of enlightenment as the episode extends in length. I mean, thinking you are on the verge of discovering the GUT (or already have) is fucking crazy...literally. ha

    I've only ever had one episode though cause I'm not fucking stupid enough to go off my meds, so there will be no more independent research from me.
     
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  13.  
    Originally Posted by aheggem View Post

    Ok. Well, I've had one. And it definitely seems like enlightenment, but you can begin to tell it's not a real sort of enlightenment as the episode extends in length. I mean, thinking you are on the verge of discovering the GUT (or already have) is fucking crazy...literally. ha

    I've only ever had one episode though cause I'm not fucking stupid enough to go off my meds, so there will be no more independent research from me.

    I'd love to hear your expanded thoughts and more about your manic episode, if possible. If not, obv I understand. Also, what is GUT?
     
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  14. Do you think that there is such a thing as enlightenment or spiritual awakening?

    Yes!

    Do you think that these are all one in the same, more or less? Are they completely separate?

    ...do you mean is enlightenment and spiritual awakening the same thing?... Yes!

    Do you think that religious ideas come from schizophrenic /bipolar people?

    I think some people are having a spiritual awakening and are misdiagnosed as schizophrenic .....and i think there are other times when people are schizophrenic.... and think they are having a spiritual experience...but aren't.... they are just crazy!


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  15. What do you mean by spiritual awakening? Is it when you discover that you are a conduit to the spiritual world? A guy I've known all my life had one of these spiritual awakenings of sorts. At least that is what he called it at the time. He told me he was a messenger from God and I told him he was nuts. He actually had a few people following him around for a while until he came down from his mania. Anyhow, he was later diagnosed bipolar. So to answer your question, if i understand the question correctly that is - I choose crazy.
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  16.  
    Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid View Post

    I think some people are having a spiritual awakening and are misdiagnosed as schizophrenic .....and i think there are other times when people are schizophrenic.... and think they are having a spiritual experience...but aren't.... they are just crazy!

    Serious question, and I know you've taken a lot of shit on this board for pushing your vegan ideals on people, but...

    Did you have what you thought of as a spiritual awakening that led to your belief in veganism?
     
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  17. <noal>Spiritual Awakening</noal>
    Spiritual Awakening and Enlightenment is the primary goal of almost all spiritual practices, traditions and religions and for any spiritual seeker. There are many names for this awakened state of Consciousness depending on what culture and tradition we belong to.

    http://www.reikithehealingpath.com/t..._awakening.htm
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  18.  
    Originally Posted by marinersheep View Post

    Serious question, and I know you've taken a lot of shit on this board for pushing your vegan ideals on people, but...

    Did you have what you thought of as a spiritual awakening that led to your belief in veganism?

    yes
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  19.  
    Originally Posted by p00pymcp00perton View Post

    What do you mean by spiritual awakening? Is it when you discover that you are a conduit to the spiritual world? A guy I've known all my life had one of these spiritual awakenings of sorts. At least that is what he called it at the time. He told me he was a messenger from God and I told him he was nuts. He actually had a few people following him around for a while until he came down from his mania. Anyhow, he was later diagnosed bipolar. So to answer your question, if i understand the question correctly that is - I choose crazy.

    Do you think that many religious ideas throughout history are simply the ideas of crazy, bipolar or schizophrenic people? Or is there some validity to religious claims? Is the experience of &quot;enlightenment&quot; just a product of the chemical imbalance in the brain of a bipolar or schizophrenic person?
     
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  20.  
    Originally Posted by marinersheep View Post

    Do you think that many religious ideas throughout history are simply the ideas of crazy, bipolar or schizophrenic people? Or is there some validity to religious claims? Is the experience of &quot;enlightenment&quot; just a product of the chemical imbalance in the brain of a bipolar or schizophrenic person?

    It's possible since every other conduit to the spiritual world, at least in the modern era, has seemed to turnout to be a few french fries short of a happy meal. Most nutbags you find in the emergency rooms have either 2 things going on - they work for or are running from the CIA, and they talk to God/demons.

    With that said -there was no CIA in antiquity but there certainly were gods. However, I wont paint the broad brush and discount every religion as a result of a manic or schizophrenic episode. According to a program I saw on the History Channel world religion came from aliens rather than crazy people.

    I know, I know. Crazy talk.
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  21. I think enlightenment/spiritual awakening exists, whether or not it exists as some external universal consciousness which can be accessed or is simply a more refined internalized perception of being in personal/individual harmony with a reality beyond the five senses.

    In terms of is the spiritual awakening/enlightenment of a sane, rational person roughly the same thing as when schizophrenic or bipolar people experience a psychotic, delusional or hallucinatory episode with religious or spiritual overtones, I think there are similarities but aren't the same.

    The feelings evoked by achieving spiritual enlightment would be extremely intense ~ enough to be life-changing, or at the least a moment which would always be at the forefront for a rational person, and I believe psycho-religious experiences would have an equally strong, in some cases behavior-modifying impact on a schizophrenic/bipolar individual. So both the rational person and the schizo could decide to become preachers.

    As to how they are different, spiritual enlightment I believe can only be achieved through a prolonged, concerted effort. To get there you have to have that as a goal which requires you to attain very deep levels of physical detachment and reach increasingly deeper levels of meditation.

    The schizo/bipolar's religious episode is a confabulation of their illness, colorized and populated by the subject's own random feelings, assumptions and beliefs concerning god, religion, etc. Totally unfocused and random. So in effect these experiences are more related to vivid dreams than the true heightened feelings of peace and insight which rational people experience as a result of their efforts to actually achieve spiritual awakening/enlightment.

    Yes I believe religious ideas can come from schizophrenic/bipolar people and if it is a burning obsession, it can produce the classic charismatic, deadly personalities that have taken down hundreds or thousands using their religious fervor as bait. I'm talking Jim Jones, David Korresh, even Hitler to an extent. Naziism had religious overtones with its aryan mythology and the huge, torch-lit processions and assemblies that were intended to have the ambience of religious ceremonies.
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  22.  
    Originally Posted by marinersheep View Post

    I'd love to hear your expanded thoughts and more about your manic episode, if possible. If not, obv I understand. Also, what is GUT?

    Yeah, I'm not shy about sharing so I'll do that, but I have to do it tomorrow cause I'm playing in tournies tonight. GUT = Grand Unified Theory
     
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  23. I remember a while back in some thread you talked about something you experienced that changed your perspective or something and if I'm not crazy you weren't willing to tell anyone about it?.....I assume this is what you were referring to?
     
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