I call myself neither Republican nor Democrat. I did, however, vote for Bush in the last two elections, simply because I felt him better suited to work with the other party vs. vice versa.

As stated above I have no Law degree or any degree for that matter, so I realize many of you will stop reading now. What I do have is a lifetime (38 years for those who care) as a lower middle class American, a member of the biggest group in the USA. I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm thankful I live in the single greatest country on Earth. A country, like any organization or corporation that has its faults, but at this point in time still has the best system in place. No long rant here about our freedoms and how they were gained....we all know that story.

I would like to discuss money. The almighty dollar always has and always will be the master of our destinies. Republican President & Democratic Senate, Democrat in the Oval Office & a Republican Senate, hell, an Independent Pres. & Libertarian Congress...it doesn't really matter. Even if you took someone born in a vaccuum with no knowledge of corruption and owning a completely pure heart he couldn't fight the monster that is gross negligent wealth. Each administration always has and always will cater to the big money that backs it. Thankfully, we have enough concerned individuals keeping tabs on what goes on to ensure that we "little people" don't get completely forgotten. I'm sure this sounds as much like a broken record as " Bush is a crook, or Clinton was a liar", but it's the truth.

Are we all really so naive to think it would be any other way? Honestly, If you were one of the true elite wouldn't you use your massive wealth to ensure you and those important to you prospered? Yeah, I know..." But I would make sure the little guy got his." Consider how many "little guys" would be standing at your feet hands stretched toward you palm up. You'll never meet the needs of everyone, so inevitably you'll concentrate on what you care about. It's a wealthy man's game and we're playing on his field, plain & simple. It doesn't mean we stop caring or discontinue attempting to ensure our continued well-being, but attacking whatever administration is in power really isn't shooting at the correct target. I realize this is a forum for discussion and we all love to debate religion & poilitics, but what good really comes from bitching about how Bush is a moron, or Clinton is a liar, or the other Bush put the country in the toilet, or Reagan was the Anti-Christ, Carter was unqualified, Ford was ??? , Nixon was a crook, Johnson esculated Vitnam, Kennedy sent us there, and on & on & on.

Unlike some here, who feel the need to belittle others and resort to name calling because people don't share their views ( you know who you are) or "talk down to us" as if we can't understand anything as high minded as what spews from their lips, I want make sure everyone understands I'm not saying this with the intent that it's a revelation of some sort.

I'll end this silly diatribe & discourse ( I think those two words are required to ensure I look more intelligent) by offering this suggestion:

You want to change the country? Then do some research and find out who the big money players are. Attack them however you can exactly where it hurts them the most...in the pocketbook. ABC co. is a major backer of the administration you loathe? Then start a boycott of all products and services that support them. Start a thread in an off topic forum of a poker website about them. Spread the word however possible about how they are driving this great country into the ground.

Good post, and I agree with most of it (conceptually). I sure hope this wasn't in part directed towards me, because I just got so fed up with the uncorroborated hatred I had to respond. I can get too emotional about these things at times (and might throw a jab or two in there), but I hope my posts have been written constructively, with class, and in a way that would incite quality 'discourse.' And yes ingas, let's agree to disagree on the NBA :).

I think the the point was that it wasn't aimed at you Jazzy, or Saulgood but at both sides equally.
In this particular discullion the "left" was more guilty of name calling and the "right" was more guilty of
or "talk down to us" as if we can't understand anything as high minded as what spews from their lips

But in any discussion of this type either can be said of the average "debater"

Thanks a lot, I think a lot of us are taking the high road here, and I'm really glad I took the time to write my argument. In fact, I'll change the subject title. And you're right, I was condescending and I'm sorry for that (I believe I had grounds to do so in the political response, though it probably lessened the effect and tuned some people out; it is something I'm working on). Diversity of people, cultures, and opinions is part of what makes this country so damn great. And good observation on "spin," it's pretty true.

100% agree!!!

ingaseven, I love the last line in the subject of your post. I use it with my family all the time.

If you ever have to tell a controlling family member you do not want to do this or you won't be available to do something, when you see the argument coming say those words.

"well, i totally hear what your saying and what is nice about being adults is we both can see things differently, so we can agree to disagree."

How do they argue that, and if they do continue the argument then it is someone you need to get away from.

I started to use this with difficult family members about 20 years ago, and a fight has never escalated after using the we are adults and we both can respect each others opinion and "agree to disagree".

Try it, you will avoid many soap opera unnecessary drama scenes!