I'm not sure if anyone else has watched the latest episodes of poker after dark but.....

Did anyone else get the feeling that Greg Raymer was not welcome by the other players. Doyle didn't even acknowledge him, nor did Johnny Chan. Joe picked on him and Huck might have said hi. This was not that shocking since Raymer is one of the select few who 'speaks for all poker players' when it came to filing law suit against the WPT. Which was a joke. I mean it always sounds like a good idea to bite the hand the feeds you. Yet, what really made me upset about poker after dark was two things.

1. When Raymer was busted he hung around the set and cryed about his bad beats and wanted people to feel sorry for him. Which of course when it comes to poker players not one person cared that he was gone. Yet, he did kind of ruin that episode where he just plooped down on the couch and was crying about chinease poker to get the money back.

2. Discussion was brought up about Raymer running for president. Rayemer said, "save this country from itself."
What the hell does that mean GREG... first this country lets you gamble and make 5 million dollars then you want to take down the WPT, and now the same country that you live in that has made you famous needs saving from its self. What is wrong with you. If you think you will ever get any vote from anybody you are out of your mind. The same country that "needs saving from itself" is going to let a prominant sports handicapper and a poker player run for president, and thats ok but the rest of the country is so messed up that we need "saving from ourselves." WOW.. I wish you the best of luck and please please stay off the tour the WPT probably doesnt want your kind anyway. Its hard to really respect you after the law suit any way. And no one cares about your bad beats and the coin flips you can't win. Well becasue you did win a ton of them resulting in a 5 million dollar pay day!!

ISorry if this sounds like im attacking you but it just upset me. I love this country and things that are done by our leaders may not always satisfiy my opinion, but thats why we have the right to vote. We do live in the greatest country on the planet, and its because of those desicisions made by our leaders.

When I was in middle school my parents yelled at me when they caught me watching poke after dark.

I don't know what CNN or MSNBC station you've been watchin.........this country needs saving from itself badly...........that said I don't like Raymer myself......he played 5/10 PLO with me at the PCA and I knew that i lived only 45 min away from his home in North Carolina near the coast.....When i tried to make small talk with him at the table about how close we were, but yet so far from NC he brushed me off and ignored my statements while also giving me one word areas and saying he didn't know where i lived and had never heard of it etc etc basically making me look like a complete dick.........lol its 45 min from his town and one of the biggest colleges in the state and yet he acted like a ignorant dick.........so very dissapointed in this guys character

Mordan

It started with the title of this thread...

Let me be the first to say, nice second post...and since half your posts are bash posts, it apparently is in your nature.

Now, I didnt see the episode. Does Raymer sound a little arrogant based on the "save the country from itself" talk? Yes. BUT...

Since when is dissent unpatriotic? This country was founded on the premise that the people must have the right and responsibility to question their leaders, as the ultimate safeguard of liberty. America's founders, its greatest patriots, were unequivocal on this issue.

Furthermore, this scares me:

" Yet, I love this country and things that are done by our leaders may not always satisfiy my opinion, but we do live in the greatest country on the planet, and its because of those desicisions made by our leaders"

Because what that says is "our leaders = our country and therefore questioning any of their decisions is wrong". Wake up pal, regardless of who is in power at the moment, leaders will always make mistakes. What makes our country great is that there is (theoretically) transparency and a system of checks and balances, so that public outrage on an issue can stop poor policy from being implemented. It doesn't always work perfectly, but the "we should always just agree with the President" mentality is what actually hampers the democratic process. If they get something wrong, you have to call them on it, period, not say "its ok, we're still pretty good overall". When people become complacent or blinded by "patriotism" and start to wave that right, well, thats when you end up with legislation that goes against the will of the people - like, say, the gambling bill.

And if you don't see any problem with how the gambling bill was passed, which is the issue Raymer is directly speaking to, then you should probably stay off of an online poker board - we're not big fans of the port bill around here.

Could Raymer have expressed himself better, and not sounded like an asshole? Yes. Still, he has always seemed friendly and respectful, from what Ive seen and what Ive heard from those that play with him. He's been good for the game, plays pretty damn well in a few games - and as far as the lawsuit, he's lobbying for player's rights in an climate where Harrah's and the WPT have added little value for the players not directly funded from the players. Blair rodman has been p5's own lightning rod for these issues, and although I dont play live tournaments, Im glad that guys like Greg and Blair are fighting to make sure that the poker boom benefits us much as the companies running the rooms.

Raymer is from Connecticut and just moved to NC. So he might not know the area all that well seeing as hes out playing the circuit. That being said ive heard from many dealers here at the Woods that hes an ass.

"dissent is the highest form of patriotism"---Thomas Jefferson.

Dissent is not unpatriotic; it's people with opinions like that who would've fought against our Founding Fathers when they tried to lead this country to revolution. after all, America was doing well enough so these same people would've argued for the status quo. Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter----dissent, when well-informed and free of hyperbole, is very important to the national discourse. as for raymer himself, i do not know his political views other than he is against legislation against online gambling, so I have no opinion on his run for president (if indeed that happens).

You bunch of upatriotic ACLU-lovin hippies, with your vainglorious platitudes of freedom and dissent. Everyone knows the First Amendment was made so Larry Flynt could publish porn and the KKK could march. James Madison was a huge porn-loving racist.

Fall in line or GTFO.

Now i have to go out back and fire-off a few rounds into that old Camaro rusting in the backyard to cool off.

lol I love this country but seriously its been falling apart the last 20 years or so. Look at the last couple presidents and presidential candidates. Was there really anyone who would have been able to revive the country? Today politics is all about power and money not whats in the best interest of the country.

Of course Raymer could be the same type of politician for all I know, but nothing he said was "unpatriotic." Like others have said this country was built on free speech. How is what Raymer said any different than presidential debates? They express their opinion on whats wrong with the country, blame their opponent, and vow to fix it.

I agree with the whole WPT suing bullshit. If they don't like the WPT don't play, simple.

Also, if your giving Raymer shit about talking about beats you really don't know who the real Johnny Chan or Joe Hachem is. Johnny curses dealers and believe they are responsible for his luck and how hes running. Joe complained about how bad hes running the year after he won the WSOP. (Funny he made a FT at the WSOP prelim that year too)

Comments like "save this country from itself" get on my tits too. Not because dissent is unpatriotic, but because it's an empty, pessimistic, useless, soap-boxy thing to say.

And thats basically what i was saying. Like I said maybe unpatriotc bad phrase....