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  1.  
    Originally Posted by littleze View Post

    This generation is so entitled, get a job and pay for your movies and music you communists


    shut up you retarded old man, we'd all be farming corn in dust storms hoping we live to 40 reading the bible for entertainment knowing nothing about nothing if you had it your way
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  2.  
    Originally Posted by gamma21 View Post

    The relevance is that the movie and music industry tries to tie financial losses to the number of downloads, when a large portion of those people would have never paid for the product in the first place.

    OK, but that doesn't make it not stealing. If I go to the Apple Store and jack an iPad, I can't get off on the theory that I never would have acquired an iPad but for the opportunity to steal.
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  3.  
    Originally Posted by Lord Supremo View Post

    OK, but that doesn't make it not stealing. If I go to the Apple Store and jack an iPad, I can't get off on the theory that I never would have acquired an iPad but for the opportunity to steal.

    What he's trying to say is that the movie industry is overestimating the problem.
    I could say that UIGEA cost my buddy $15,036,175 because he binked a tourney and made $8,239 playing on Party Poker in the one day he played on it and it's been 5 years x 365 days/year x $8239/day = $15,036,175, but it didn't.
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  4. Right, obviously if the argument is "there were 15 million illegal downloads, ergo we lost 150 million dollars" then that's not true. But they did lose something, and the 15 million illegal downloaders each still stole something.
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  5.  
    Originally Posted by littleze View Post

    get a job and pay for your movies and music you communists

    Have you seen gas prices?

    I am entitled to be entertained by entitled entertainers.

     
    Originally Posted by Lord Supremo View Post

    Right, obviously if the argument is "there were 15 million illegal downloads, ergo we lost 150 million dollars" then that's not true. But they did lose something, and the 15 million illegal downloaders each still stole something.

     
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  6.  
    Originally Posted by Lord Supremo View Post

    Right, obviously if the argument is "there were 15 million illegal downloads, ergo we lost 150 million dollars" then that's not true. But they did lose something, and the 15 million illegal downloaders each still stole something.

    That is their argument. And they are using the "we had xxxx amount of dollars stolen from us" (I actually don't even pay attention the exact number they use since it is completely bogus) to make an argument for legislation that will hurt privacy/freedom on the internet. They don't need stronger tools to stop this theft, which on the grand scale of things isn't that big.

    Every person who speeds is breaking the law. Does that mean we should mandate that every car have a device that monitors speed/gps location and sends it to the law enforcement agencies so they can punish those breaking the law? of course not, because the costs/privacy concerns outweigh the gravity of the lawbreaking. IMO, the losses to privacy on the internet FAR outweigh the costs to this one industry with any of the newly proposed legislation. Every law has balancing concerns, and by overestimating the cost of the theft to the entertainment industry is trying to sway the balance of the arguments.
    Edited By: SevenCostanza May 8th, 2012 at 01:50 PM
    Reason: there v their
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  7.  
    Originally Posted by SevenCostanza View Post

    That is their argument. And they are using the "we had xxxx amount of dollars stolen from us" (I actually don't even pay attention the exact number they use since it is completely bogus) to make an argument for legislation that will hurt privacy/freedom on the internet. They don't need stronger tools to stop this theft, which on the grand scale of things isn't that big.

    Every person who speeds is breaking the law. Does that mean we should mandate that every car have a device that monitors speed/gps location and sends it to the law enforcement agencies so they can punish those breaking the law? of course not, because the costs/privacy concerns outweigh the gravity of the lawbreaking. IMO, the losses to privacy on the internet FAR outweigh the costs to this one industry with any of the newly proposed legislation. Every law has balancing concerns, and by overestimating the cost of the theft to the entertainment industry is trying to sway the balance of the arguments.

    Hammer, nail, head. /thread and argument
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  8. Add BRm34eva to Rail
  9.  
    Originally Posted by SevenCostanza View Post


    Every person who speeds is breaking the law.
    ...............................

    Poor analogy. You speeding is not depriving any person value for their property. Downloads are depriving depriving value. You can argue over the correct dollar amount, but we can agree that there is an amount.

    "Well it's the studios' fault for not opening up its distribution channels!!! If they did I'd pay, no doubt. So hey, streaming/torrenting is fair game because of their antiquated system!!!"
    What about the music industry which has everything digital and piracy is still rampant?
    "crickets"
    You still there?
    "huh, oh, it's different, freedom, my rights, you just don't understand"
    You're a thief you know?
    "Freedom, freedom, my rights are being encroached on."
    What about the rights of another to monetize their idea and reap the appropriate benefits from that?
    "Freeeeeeeeeeeeedom"
    Ok, we're done.
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  10.  
    Originally Posted by Niceguy View Post

    Poor analogy. You speeding is not depriving any person value for their property. Downloads are depriving depriving value. You can argue over the correct dollar amount, but we can agree that there is an amount.


    What about the music industry which has everything digital and piracy is still rampant?
    "crickets"

    This conveniently ignores the fact that music piracy has declined substantially over the last five years. That timespan also happens to coincide with the rise of digital distribution platforms (Spotify, itunes explosion, etc).

    You're never going to end piracy. It just isn't going to happen. But its pretty clear that with the rise of digital alternatives to music distribution came a reduction in the amount of music illegally downloaded.
    Edited By: ajedrez May 8th, 2012 at 07:00 PM
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  11. You know I think the movie companies should charge more if you buy their DVDs and allow people like your friends or family to watch the movie from your home. They should ask you when you buy the movie how many people will be watching this and then charge accordingly from there. I mean how the fuck do you think you can get away with letting your kids see a free movie as many times as they want without paying royalties. Crazyness.

    One time I quoted some movies on here....I better pony up on that too.
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  12. lol @ people arguing that stealing is OK but "don't steal my shit."

    you can still call it stealing and oppose this overreaching, idiotic legislation. but fucking lol at justifying theft itt.
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  13.  
    Originally Posted by ajedrez View Post

    This conveniently ignores the fact that music piracy has declined substantially over the last five years. That timespan also happens to coincide with the rise of digital distribution platforms (Spotify, itunes explosion, etc).

    You're never going to end piracy. It just isn't going to happen. But its pretty clear that with the rise of digital alternatives to music distribution came a reduction in the amount of music illegally downloaded.

    people will just go back to bootlegs if they cant download

    And I just want to make one thing clear here...Ive never torrented a movie or show ever..I dont watch movies. And the music I listen too is all trader friendly for live shows (Phish, Dead). My arguments are not for personal reasons. I just think we dont need an new fucking laws.
    Edited By: cmval May 8th, 2012 at 08:22 PM
    Reason: forogt "not" that was important
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  14.  
    Originally Posted by Niceguy View Post

    Poor analogy. You speeding is not depriving any person value for their property. Downloads are depriving depriving value. You can argue over the correct dollar amount, but we can agree that there is an amount.

    Eh, I'm not 100% convinced that movie studios are losing any amount of money from illegal downloads. This isn't like stealing a piece of fruit from a market, where the store has a finite number of apples to sell to consumers, and you stealing an apple means one less apple the store can sell. I think what hasn't been mentioned is how much revenue studios actually gained from illegal downloads. For example, some people may watch a movie online, love it, then go to see it in theaters to get the big screen experience. Or they may love it so much, they end up buying the DVD so they can have a physical copy. Also, with more people seeing the movie online, that can increase the buzz surrounding the movie, causing the downloaders' friends to see the movie in theaters.

    Does that increase in revenue exceed the decrease in revenue that movie studios lose when a person who would have bought a DVD decides not to because he can watch the movie online for free? I have no idea, but I think it's a conversation worth having. The increase in box office receipts over the last few years suggests that maybe illegal streaming doesn't cause a decrease in profits after all. It may in fact be win-win for everyone involved.
    Edited By: Pghfan987 May 8th, 2012 at 09:06 PM
     1
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  15.  

    Of all the people who downloaded a pirate copy of the film about 20% came from the US. This means that roughly 100,000 Americans have downloaded a copy online through BitTorrent. Now, IF all these people bought a movie ticket instead then box office revenue would be just 0.5% higher.
    Not much of an impact, and even less when you consider that these “pirates” do not all count as a lost sale.

    http://torrentfreak.com/the-avengers...record-120508/
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  16. well golly gee if torrentfreak says it's not a problem, let's just believe it.
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  17.  
    Originally Posted by Niceguy View Post

    Poor analogy. You speeding is not depriving any person value for their property. Downloads are depriving depriving value. You can argue over the correct dollar amount, but we can agree that there is an amount.

    there might be a better analogy, but speeding and illegal downloading both harm someone else in indirect ways (as said before, stealing via illegal downloading is different than stealing via shoplifting an apple). by someone else speeding, they are depriving the other drivers of safety and they are causing other people to pay more in medical bills for the accidents that happen because of it, so they are also depriving others of value. sure, it is different in that we know which studio is hurt by the downloading of a certain movie, and we don't know which people are hurt by the speeding, but there are still victims.

     
    Originally Posted by Niceguy View Post

    well golly gee if torrentfreak says it's not a problem, let's just believe it.

    well golly gee if the movie industry says it is a problem, let's just believe it
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  18.  
    Originally Posted by SevenCostanza View Post

    there might be a better analogy, but speeding and illegal downloading both harm someone else in indirect ways

    stealing someone's product is indirect stealing? sounds pretty direct to me; I'd really think it was direct if it was my stuff someone was stealing.

     
    Originally Posted by SevenCostanza View Post

    (as said before, stealing via illegal downloading is different than stealing via shoplifting an apple).

    ???

    you might wanna reread, I believe this was demonstrating it is more similar than different. but it isn't too surprising anyone that thinks stealing is OK would also not understand the example.

     
    Originally Posted by SevenCostanza View Post

    well golly gee if the movie industry says it is a problem, let's just believe it

    or we could think critically and realize the obvious - stealing is stealing.

    it really isn't gray at all.
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  19.  
    Originally Posted by cmval View Post

    But but the movie industry is being destroyed by copyright infringement or piracy more specifically.

    GFY LMB and all the other acronyms

    Its pretty simple if you ask me. Make something good and you get paid. If you make shit, people arent going to pay for your product. So sick of hearing about how these rich bastards in hollywood are getting fucked over by some kid downloading their movie for free from a torrent site.

    The movie and recording industry is already armed to the teeth with legislation and high priced lawyers. Yet so many people are convinced we need more laws to punish people for file sharing and copyright infringement.

    I think I may become a follower of Kopimism.

    just a short rant..sorry

    Ford's owners are rich bastards too....free cars!

    Oil Company Owners are rich bastards too...free gas!

    I love this logic!!!!!
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