Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

How progressive is the US tax system?

Reply to Thread
  1. Dyzalot Dyzalot is offline

    Candia, NH
    United States

    Posts: 14,473
    Joined: May 05

    Feb 6th, 2012 (2/6/2012 8:16pm)

     

    The richest 10 percent of U.S. households (those making $112,124 or more) contribute a greater share of taxes (45.1 percent of all income taxes) than their counterparts in any other industrialized nation. Meanwhile, the average tax burden for the top 10 percent of households in OECD countries is 31.6 percent of the revenue collected, well below the percentage in America. Interestingly, in France, a notorious welfare-state government, only 28 percent of revenue comes from the top 10 percent of income earners. As for the top 1 percent of Americans, their share of federal taxes paid is roughly 30 percent.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...-system/213301

    Probably much more progressive than we realize...
     3
  2. SyphonSoul SyphonSoul is offline

    Posts: 5,005
    Joined: Aug 07

    Feb 6th, 2012 (2/6/2012 8:17pm) in reply to Dyzalot

    its live
     
  3. Neeek Neeek is offline

    Kansas City, MO
    United States

    Posts: 8,349
    Joined: Sep 05

    Feb 6th, 2012 (2/6/2012 8:25pm) in reply to SyphonSoul

    I'm pretty certain you know why that is dishonest.

    greater wealth disparities, regressive state/local taxes, etc. etc. etc.

    your liike so objective and unbiased and stuff tho.
    Edited By: Neeek Feb 6th, 2012 at 08:25 PM
  4. Dyzalot Dyzalot is offline

    Candia, NH
    United States

    Posts: 14,473
    Joined: May 05

    Feb 6th, 2012 (2/6/2012 8:31pm) in reply to Neeek

     
    Originally Posted by Neeek View Post

    I'm pretty certain you know why that is dishonest.

    greater wealth disparities, regressive state/local taxes, etc. etc. etc.

    your liike so objective and unbiased and stuff tho.

    From the article and they are looking only at federal taxes. They didn't compare local taxes here to local taxes in Europe.

     

    In part, this finding reflects the greater role played in the U.S. tax system by refundable tax credits, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit, and it also reflects the higher earnings of the wealthiest here.

    The article also points out that Europe is much more progressive in how tax reveue is used compared to the U.S.
     3
    Thread Starter
  5. ccm ccm is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 3,629
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 6th, 2012 (2/6/2012 11:31pm) in reply to Dyzalot

    Their statement is flawed; they use an incorrect definition of "progressive tax system". If the richest 10% of taxpayers are paying 45% of all income taxes, this doesn't make it a progressive tax system. It could very well be that they earn WAY more money, and pay a lower effective rate of tax than middle class taxpayers.

    In summary, just because they pay more, doesn't mean they pay a higher % on their earnings. Which is what a progressive tax system is.

    Try again, and come correct.
    Edited By: ccm Feb 6th, 2012 at 11:33 PM
  6. Purple Jesus Purple Jesus is offline

    MN
    United States

    Posts: 1,333
    Joined: Dec 10

    Feb 6th, 2012 (2/6/2012 11:37pm) in reply to ccm

    Well, it's progressive, but I'm not sure in what terms I'd describe how progressive it is.
  7. ccm ccm is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 3,629
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 12:26am) in reply to Purple Jesus

    If guys like Warren Buffett and Mitt Romney are paying 14% tax on their total annual income, and the middle class are paying taxes in the 20-30% range, it could be seen as regressive.
    Edited By: ccm Feb 7th, 2012 at 12:27 AM
  8. Lenny Lenny is offline lail henny!

    Nashville, TN
    United States

    Posts: 8,790
    Joined: Nov 05

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 12:32am) in reply to ccm

    Also, does it include payroll taxes? European economies tax and spend much more progressively on social safety net. Here the working and middle classes are taxed at 7-15% of their incomes for SS,mcare,maid, while the wealth pay a tiny fraction of that. Simply raising FICA ceiling would secure Social Security for decades.
  9. MonkeyCowboy MonkeyCowboy is offline

    United States

    Posts: 6,869
    Joined: Apr 05

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 12:55am) in reply to Lenny

     
    Originally Posted by Lenny View Post

    Also, does it include payroll taxes? European economies tax and spend much more progressively on social safety net. Here the working and middle classes are taxed at 7-15% of their incomes for SS,mcare,maid, while the wealth pay a tiny fraction of that. Simply raising FICA ceiling would secure Social Security for decades.

    OMG I can not believe I agree with Lenny. The cap on PR tax has always baffled me, although I remember from my controller days that the PR tax cap also limited things like Profit sharing.
  10. skisteve skisteve is offline 2008-2009 Thread Killer Champ

    French Polynesia

    Posts: 30,452
    Joined: Jul 06

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 12:56am) in reply to MonkeyCowboy

    Primitive. If a group of politicians sat around thinking of the most cumbersome thing they could hire thousands of people for to employ them we would end up with the irs. Oh wait.
  11. Neeek Neeek is offline

    Kansas City, MO
    United States

    Posts: 8,349
    Joined: Sep 05

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 1:11am) in reply to skisteve

    other than all of ^ that, really interesting article or something?

    dyz loses credibility by the day.
  12. Dyzalot Dyzalot is offline

    Candia, NH
    United States

    Posts: 14,473
    Joined: May 05

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 4:31am) in reply to ccm

     
    Originally Posted by ccm View Post

    If guys like Warren Buffett and Mitt Romney are paying 14% tax on their total annual income, and the middle class are paying taxes in the 20-30% range, it could be seen as regressive.

    Buffett and Romey pay more than that since they also pay the 25% corporate rate on the profits before they even make money to get taxed again at 15% or so.

     
    Originally Posted by Lenny View Post

    Also, does it include payroll taxes? European economies tax and spend much more progressively on social safety net. Here the working and middle classes are taxed at 7-15% of their incomes for SS,mcare,maid, while the wealth pay a tiny fraction of that. Simply raising FICA ceiling would secure Social Security for decades.

    Yeah I quoted the part of the article where they claim that tax expenditures are more progressive in Europe than here. However, as to your raising of the FICA ceiling argument, doing that makes it a lot tougher to defend he program as an insurance program and not simply an entitlement. I would rather see means testing for benefits. I see no reason for millionaires to receive social security although again, this makes it tougher to defend on the grounds that it is insurance. Ultimately I'd rather look into trying the Chilean model that many other countries are moving to now.

     
    Originally Posted by Neeek View Post

    other than all of ^ that, really interesting article or something?

    dyz loses credibility by the day.

    Of course I do. I always speak untruths...
     3
    Thread Starter
  13. ccm ccm is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 3,629
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 5:16pm) in reply to ccm

     
    Originally Posted by ccm View Post

    Their statement is flawed; they use an incorrect definition of "progressive tax system". If the richest 10% of taxpayers are paying 45% of all income taxes, this doesn't make it a progressive tax system. It could very well be that they earn WAY more money, and pay a lower effective rate of tax than middle class taxpayers.

    In summary, just because they pay more, doesn't mean they pay a higher % on their earnings. Which is what a progressive tax system is.

    care to address this?

    ...it kind of goes to the root of your argument
  14. Dyzalot Dyzalot is offline

    Candia, NH
    United States

    Posts: 14,473
    Joined: May 05

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 5:48pm) in reply to ccm

     
    Originally Posted by ccm View Post

    care to address this?

    ...it kind of goes to the root of your argument

     

    Progressive taxation often must be considered as part of an overall system since tax codes have many interdependent variables. For example, when refundable tax credits and other tax incentives are included across the entire income spectrum, the United States has the most progressive income tax code among its peer nations; although its overall income tax rates are below the OECD average.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax
     3
    Thread Starter
  15. Mr Galt Mr Galt is offline sister-in-law's a ho

    Overland Park, KS
    United States

    Posts: 9,095
    Joined: Nov 07

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 7:05pm) in reply to Dyzalot

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...519223426.html

    Don't click and read. You might learn something.
Reply to Thread

Similar Threads