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Insurance claim advice (advice on who has to prove what)

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  1. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
    Canada

    Posts: 6,350
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 6:20pm)

    My mom had her car stolen approximately a year and a half ago. ICBC (our insurance company) is refusing to pay her out saying that we had the vehicle professionally stolen. Their reasons are that her car (a 1998 Honda Accord) is impossible to steal because of the chip in the key. Nobody should be able to steal the car unless we have given them the key.

    Obviously my mom didn't steal the car or have it stolen. It's value is approx. $8000 so we're not going to be getting a lawyer involved either.

    My question is...is it ICBC's responsibility to prove that my mom paid to have the car stolen, or is it my mom's responsibility to prove that she didn't steal the car? Stupid question I know but I'm pretty sure the onus of proof is on ICBC right?
     
  2. az1969 az1969 is offline

    Phoenix, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 3,569
    Joined: Sep 05

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 6:23pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    Let me preface this by saying, I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn once.

    I assume she filed a police report, and the police report states the car was stolen, and she has not been accused of filing a false claim, so I would assume they have to prove your mom paid somebody to steal it.

    Let me conclude with: ICBC is one SHITTY insurace company for pulling this crap.
  3. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
    Canada

    Posts: 6,350
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 6:26pm) in reply to az1969

    OK thanks for your advice. I kind've figuired that. I'm not on here looking for legal counsel, just some basic advice.

    I'm from British Columbia and ICBC is our provincial insurance company. All basic car insurance has to go through ICBC. Extended coverage may be done through private companies.
     
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  4. ShortyJacksn ShortyJacksn is offline

    United States Minor Outlying Islands

    Posts: 5,986
    Joined: Dec 06

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 6:27pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    In 2001 it was ranked 58th for the most commonly stolen vehicle (for all years and all brands).

    http://www.auto-theft.info/Statistics.htm

    Tell ICBC to shove their fraud up their ass.
  5. vetiver vetiver is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 580
    Joined: Jun 07

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 6:34pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    "Provincial Insurance Company"? Yeah this explains a lot.

    I was going to give you advice based on rational laws, but being in Canada and having provincial insurance companies changes everything. Given the nature of their business (INSURANCE) the burden must be on them unless the police report suggests your mom may have done this herself, or there is something explicitly in writing related to this computer chip deal, like: "cuz there's a chip in ur key u gotta catch the thief and hogtie dem before we pay u yer money, in which case u will have already got ur car back" (how I imagine Canadian contracts to be)... but even that doesn't make sense because what happens if someone steals the key?
     
  6. Willywoo Willywoo is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

    Posts: 17,803
    Joined: Jan 06

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 6:59pm) in reply to vetiver

    I am not familiar with Canadian law, but I do know that many insurance companies have no compunction about lying to or deceiving an insured to make a claim go away.

    In America you would have the burden of proof on your claim, but if their claim that you had the car stolen is an affirmative defense, they would generally have the burden of proof on that defense.

    Many states also have small claims courts or courts of limited jurisdiction in which you could bring your claim by yourself, but I do not know about Canada.

    Also, read your policy there may be a provision requiring arbitration, if not you ask them if they would agree to arbitrate the claim.

    Do not give up. The longer and harder you pursue it, the more likely they are to pay what is owed.

    Finally, this may be something that an attorney could help you get resolved quickly. You can put a limit on what you wish to spend with an attorney. For instance you could say I will pay you $500. What can you do for that amount? It may be enough to get a letter or two and a couple of phone calls. Try to find a young lawyer working on his own. It may be worthwhile.
  7. dbcoyotes23 dbcoyotes23 is offline

    Huntsville
    Canada

    Posts: 372
    Joined: Mar 07

    Oct 31st, 2007 (10/31/2007 10:09pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    Insurance companies will try and deny all claims.

    If they are giving you a hard time, it may be worth it to go see a lawyer. Check out a case called "Whiten v. Pilot Insurance" where the court awarded a million dollars in punitive damages against an insurance company. (Which in Canada was unheard of at the time.)

    If you don't, what will your mom's insurance premiums be like for her next car?
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