In before



(And why the shit storm always gotta be toward my area? Complete BS, imo)

Play that christian side hug

 

Originally Posted by jtown1010

Leaders will use religion or patriotism to rally support but I doubt many wars in the last several hundred years had much to do with religion at all.

absolutely this.

How religious were the christians killing everything in site during the Crusades?

How religious were the catholics and protestants blowing each other up in Ireland?

How religious were the islamic fundamentalists encouraging their youth to strap bombs to their chests?

How religious are modern day christians when they kill abortion doctors and blow up clinics?

not very.

The current conflict in AFg is def based on religion. It stems from the first Gulf War and the basing of troops in Saudi.

But not all wars were based on Religion. Japan attacking Pearl Harbor wasnt based on Religion? Spanish American War wasnt religion? Civil War wasnt religion?
I guess if you are considering the way peoples beliefs/ideals are formed because of their religious beliefs, then maybe there is a corolation?

But if is were to guess most every war in the last 200 years has been based on Monetary gain?

 

Originally Posted by marinersheep

So I was thinking in the shower and reflecting on Obama's Nobel speech today, when I got to thinking that every war fought is a religious war. We strive to spread the American ideals of life to a global scale. Religion is a way of life; that's what it is. We often think of it literally, often associating it with the belief in a higher power. Religion is a control system for a functioning civilized society. American laws, morals and ethics are our country's religion. We are attempting to spread this religion, this way of life, throughout the world. We think that this is the right way, and we are willing to fight for what we believe. So while this isn't a religious war in the traditional sense, our goal is to globalize the laws, morals and ethics that our country believes in.

So, is American law, moral and ethic code any different than religion? Aren't the wars we fight in the name of these American ideals a war of what can be defined as, American religion?

I'm still kind of trying to make my thoughts coherent, but I think this is a good starting point.

no

 

Originally Posted by saxman

absolutely this.

How religious were the christians killing everything in site during the Crusades?

How religious were the catholics and protestants blowing each other up in Ireland?

How religious were the islamic fundamentalists encouraging their youth to strap bombs to their chests?

How religious are modern day christians when they kill abortion doctors and blow up clinics?

not very.

All these conquests are not religious in their actions, but force is deemed necessary in order to accomplish a desired result. If you listened to Obama's speech, he asserted that war is sometimes necessary in order to "create peace". This "peace" is obviously the "peace" of a society following American function.

In America, we do not condone force and killing. Yet, we will go on the offensive using force and killing in war in order to achieve victory.

According to Obama, force is a resort that sometimes must be used in order to make things what we believe to be "right". What we believe to be right may not be what other societies believe to be right. And for them to try and progress their view of what should be, they, too, have to use force.

Whether it's Islamic extremists or American troops, are these not just groups of people using force in an attempt to create a world fit for their beliefs as to what the way of life should be?

Mariner, i believe its more about rallying people around a common cause and more often than not, the common threat / thread is based on misguided religious beliefs. Again, i suppose you would have to define what you believe is a religious person. My definition is more about humanitarian aid and support, compassion and honesty than it is about believing in a god.
edit: i must admit, i am confused about the whole "religious" thing b/c i was raised in a christian home and was quite "religious" at one time. I still believe in the basic fundamentals of love, compassion, honesty and integrity but thats about where it ends for me these days. Been around too long, seen too many false prophets and i call bullshit on 90% of the "religious" trip i see out there today.

 

Originally Posted by marinersheep

Whether it's Islamic extremists or American troops, are these not just groups of people using force in an attempt to create a world fit for their beliefs as to what the way of life should be?

If money is a religion that OP is correct. If not then no.

To me when you say religion, you mean Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Atheism, etc, etc.

Belief in the way life should be is not a religion in that sense.

 

Originally Posted by saxman

Mariner, i believe its more about rallying people around a common cause and more often than not, the common threat / thread is based on misguided religious beliefs. Again, i suppose you would have to define what you believe is a religious person. My definition is more about humanitarian aid and support, compassion and honesty than it is about believing in a god.

My definition is more about how you believe your way of life should be lived. If you believe in American ideals, I don't really see how that is any different than believing in Christian ideals, Muslim ideals, Jewish ideals, etc.

If you believe in the American way of life, that's pretty much your religion. That's the way you want to live your life - your religion.

 

Originally Posted by marinersheep

If you believe in the American way of life, that's pretty much your religion.

well, this is where it gets a bit dicey. You could argue then that its perfectly acceptable to have an imperialistic view on the world to protect yourself from physical threats and monetary threats (ie. keeping oil flowing in the middle east). Gets real sketchy for me when you hold that door open.

i think most ppl ITT took the word 'religion' too literally, and i'm pretty sure that wasn't mariner's point (correct me if i'm wrong).

 

Originally Posted by marinersheep

American laws, morals and ethics are our country's religion. We are attempting to spread this religion, this way of life, throughout the world. We think that this is the right way, and we are willing to fight for what we believe. So while this isn't a religious war in the traditional sense, our goal is to globalize the laws, morals and ethics that our country believes in.

So, is American law, moral and ethic code any different than religion? Aren't the wars we fight in the name of these American ideals a war of what can be defined as, American religion?

religion: christianity, islam, hinduism, etc.

now pretend 'democracy' and 'communism' are religions too.

According to 'democracy', 'communism' is a bad bad religion. So 'democracy' always try to prevent 'communism' from spreading, to save their potential followers from 'hell'. So they kill their followers, be it in southeast asia, europe, etc.

there's also islam's cousin, 'syariah law', and though its relationship with 'communism' isn't clear, it's definitely not friends with 'democracy' or 'christianity' at the moment.

did i get it right?