no they can BK and make it which is prolly the best thing

There are many reasons but one I heard today was that the unions have an agreement with the big 3 that says they must pay employees like 95% of normal wages regardless or if they work or not.(I know the American dream, something for nothing)

Other reasons could be loss of market share, not having any new models could kill them in the future, also leaving a huge manufacturing facility to do nothing cant be good.

Now imagine that you are digging a hole into the earth. You keep digging and digging until finally you look up and you see that you've dug so deep that you cannot get out of the hole. What do you do? Well, if you are GM or the federal government you just keep right on digging.

 

Originally Posted by CheeseHead

There are many reasons but one I heard today was that the unions have an agreement with the big 3 that says they must pay employees like 95% of normal wages regardless or if they work or not.(I know the American dream, something for nothing)

Other reasons could be loss of market share, not having any new models could kill them in the future, also leaving a huge manufacturing facility to do nothing cant be good.

This is very true. I read an article last year that they had employee lounges for these union workers who had to show up to work(because they were getting paid) and they would sit there for 8 hours and do whatever. GM and Ford don't really have a shot IMO. It's sad but true.

 

Originally Posted by dpottz

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

Now imagine that you are digging a hole into the earth. You keep digging and digging until finally you look up and you see that you've dug so deep that you cannot get out of the hole. What do you do? Well, if you are GM or the federal government you just keep right on digging.

in fairness, if they dig far enough they might make it to china and maybe we start exporting

So, you're sayin there's a chance?

guess what car company is the No. 1 car company in China. surprise, surprise GM

If they stopped making cars, they wouldn't break even.

There are certain costs that they would have regardless of how many or how few cards they make.

Just about every business has to pay for rent, utilities, etc

A company like GM is probably on the hook for a lot of things.

Besides, as other posters mentioned, what will they do with the employees? They can't just fire everyone and they can't give the employees a paid vacation until the economy gets better.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

guess what car company is the No. 1 car company in China. surprise, surprise GM

I'm gonna need a cite for this.

meh, for anybody else I would, but you've been a huge pain in my ass and you did it on purpose so well... I'll be nice and just say go fly a kite.

GM recently overtook VW's lead in China.

http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/englis...ent_458546.htm

Also, the automotive manufacturing in North America has historically been a key component of the US war machine. Losing the remaining capabilities could pose a significant risk to our ability to retool and start building tanks, airplanes, jeeps, and boats. Granted, much of this has already been outsourced, and military has changed a lot in the last 30 years, but might be a consideration for the federal government.

Also, might be gracious to remember that GM's Keep America Rolling marketing in 2001/02 was acknowledged to have led to the rebound of the federal economy after 9-11.

Saying that GM's failure is because they didn't pay attention to the market is not exactly accurate. GM's SUVs were very marketable. The market didn't slowly migrate, it was pushed by oil prices. Americans were buying gas guzzlers by the thousands only a few years ago.

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

I could be wrong, but I think this means that GM has the biggest share of sales among foreign automakers. FAW is a Chinese company and is the leading automobile manufacturer in China. Also, GM is only a 34% partner in a joint venture with a Chinese company relating to its Chinese operations.

That sounds right.

 

Originally Posted by amymarie1967

There was a documentary on MSNBC on it the other night. Shocked the hell out of me.

What was said about paying employees who don't work is semitrue. My ex works for GM, and he is currently working 6 weeks on/6 weeks off. When he's off he gets 80% of his BASE pay. Not COLA or shift premiums. He had to work 15 years to be eligible for that.

The reason all three (Ford, GM, and Chrysler) are in trouble is because of the union. They've demanded more and more each year until it is absurd. The last year I was married filing jointly, my ex made 120k as an hourly worker. Then he had free legal representation for our divorce (another bene). It's ok though, i've got a good piece of his retirement, so I can only pray GM makes it through ;)

Is the divorce final? If the piece of your retirement is dependant on the stock you are screwed compared to a year ago.

The divorce has been final for awhile now. No, it's not dependant on stock, that's all through Fidelity. Of course, if GM fails it will be worth about 50% government guaranteed. Based on GM's numbers for the last three years I haven't counted on that anyway.

But the shares of stock I got in the divorce suck. They were "free" though, so i'm gonna hang onto them for the next 20 and hope to hell they are worth something eventually. Not the measly $3.08 each they were this morning.

Ironically, they are dividend paying stocks. The last dividends were more than the stocks actual worth. But they cut that out now too. Along with my son's college money.

They've actually done some pretty good cost cutting measures. My dad is retired, and his health insurance got cut down to pretty much nothing. No office call coverage and the only prescription coverage is through mail order.

Now if they'd cut Wagner's balls off.. err, I mean his bonuses, they might get somewhere.