1. No I didn't know that Manning had a higher PR than Brady in the playoffs.
2. I have a hard time thinking about PR in playoffs and SB. Playoffs seem to come down to 1 drive, Brady and Montana have been clutch in those situations, over and over. I don't care what their PR is, it always comes down to 1 drive in the playoffs. Manning has not been as good.

All great Qb's are the system, if their team is not defense driven like Ravens, Bears, Steelers, etc. It's not just Manning. Take any great Qb off an offensive minded team and they are gonna struggle.

The Colts have had ONE pick in the top 20 of the draft since 2000...so to say they are "surrounding him with #1 picks" is a flawed statement. It's not like they are picking in the top 10 every year and creating a Detroit Lions like talent pool.

2001- Reggie Wayne 31st
2002- Freeney 11th
2003- Clark 24th
2004- No 1st rounder
2005- Jackson 29th
2006- Addai 30th
2007- Gozalez 32nd
2008- No 1st rounder
2009- Brown 27th
2010- Hughes 31st

Are you faulting Manning for the Colts drafting well? Because that is ridiculous to do.

Everyone said "Oh it's just because he has Harrison" and look what he's done with Reggie Wayne.

The Colts have never had a run game with Manning yet he still dominates teams through the air. Do you honestly think defensive co-ordinators go into preparation for the Colts and not know they are throwing the ball 60-70% of the time? Do you think this catches them off guard?

Last year they went to the Super Bowl having the 32nd ranked running game. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 32nd ranked run offense has never made a Super Bowl appearance before.

Since 2002 the Colts have had no higher than a 15th best run game....Their record in that span: 104-31 (.770), They've made the playoffs every year in that span, been to two Super Bowls and won one. In comparison with the Montana 49ers; Roger Craig is a 2010 HOF finalist, I'm thinking Joe Addai and Donald Brown may miss out on that distinction once they retire.



Top 10 defenses for "most years"....LMFAO if you count 2 of 13 as "most" then your statement is very accurate.

Defense Rankings in Manning era

1998 29th- 3 wins
1999 15th- 13 wins
2000 21st- 10 wins
2001 29th- 6 wins
2002 8th- 10 wins
2003 11th- 12 wins
2004 29th- 12 wins
2005 11th- 14 wins
2006 21st- 12 wins
2007 3rd- 13 wins
2008 11th- 12 wins
2009 18th- 14 wins
2010 17th- 5-2 record so far


The regular season comment is so old and overplayed, it's sadly becoming the only excuse the true Manning haters have left.

You can argue all you want about who would win what, and who would of been better than who, at the end of the day, when you look at true facts and numbers, listen to players WHO FUCKING LIVE THE GAME for years, and listen to analysts whose job it is to watch game tape, study tape, study film, study players, study teams, etc...

There is no more denying that Peyton Manning is one of the top 3 QB's of all time and trending upwards. You can argue where he stands in that 3, you can argue who's 1-2-3....but it's like Jordan in basketball, Gretzky in hockey...you can't deny where they are, you can try but it's a failing argument.

Colts' offense during playoffs during Manning era: 22.7 PPG
Patriots " " " " Brady era: 22.6 PPG

Colts' defense: 21.5 PPG
Pats' defense: 19 PPG

I am sure being spotted almost one field goal per game didn't help Brady at all ...

Mariano Rivera tho. Fourth quarter is just another quarter.

Oh and those drives you showed were Brady needing to gain 40 yards and let their kicker win the game. It was a little different with Manning. It's absurd retarded fucking luck. Brady was in better situations. Period.

Just curious, since you think Mannng is un-clutch ... do you think Mike Webster was more clutch than Jeff Saturday?

 

Originally Posted by Pghfan987

Just curious, since you think Mannng is un-clutch ... do you think Mike Webster was more clutch than Jeff Saturday?

Didn't see Mike Webster or Jeff Saturday singlehandedly lose a Super Bowl

EEEEEEEEELIIIIIIIIIIIII gonna ELI

One thing to consider PGH. You talk all this jive about Brady having a better defense, but you don't acknowledge that Peyton has surperior DNA. Peyton was throwin a football around when he was like 2 years old. His dad was a gr8 QB, his bro is a damn good QB, and his other bro also got game. Tom Brady overcame his inferior DNA (other than the looks) and was drafted in the 7th round. Plus he's married to Giselle Buncheon. FUCKIN' GISELLE.

By all accounts, other than salary, silly statistics like "qb rating" , yards, endorsements and salary blahblahblah(and mind you, Brady still holds the rating and TD records for a single season), Tom Brady > Peyton Manning where it really counts. He's got more rings, more bitches, and better hair.

Whitlock (who brings the truth) raping Peyton twice and anointing Elway as God rightfully in the first one:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/t...bs-of-all-time

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/02/07...gs-legacy.html

Also everyone loves to say that Manning is lifting slop to the Super Bowl year after year...um, no. Read the stuff in Whitlock's column about Polian; it's laughable that everyone acts like first round picks like Wayne, Harrison, Clark, Edgerrin are all scrubs that Manning made into God. Collie and Garcon were made into good WRs; cool. Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls with DAVID PATTEN, DAVID GIVENS, DEION BRANCH, AND TROY FUCKING BROWN. he's done the exact same thing as Manning, but better. He's won 3 Super Bowls with clown WRs...when he had good talent around him for 1 year, what'd he do? Break Manning's record for TDs, TD-INT, and passer rating; lead the Pats to an undefeated record and is the luckiest football play of all-time away from going 19-0 and making a Brady-Manning debate laughable. You can debate it, but Brady runs this shit.

Manning's teams have been the #1 seed 4 times in the playoffs. That means they've been the BEST regular-season team and had homefield. How'd they do? 2-4 with 3 first round losses AT HOME, with the 2 wins coming against the Jets and Ravens last year. LOL.

Peyton=1990s Atlanta Braves, lucksack a title against weak competition in a down year for your main rival (if the Pats don't trade Deion Branch that year, they beat the Colts and win the title) so no one can call you a complete choke artist
Tom Brady=1990s New York Yankees, runs shit

Like others have said, if I'm down 4 with 2 mins to go and need a TD to win the Super Bowl, who do I want at QB? Tom Brady or this guy?



I think I know the answer to that question.

oh cool, I forgot that you played to have the best regular season record.

oh and nice job translating that superior regular season record into rings LOL

oh and Manning's playoff stats are inflated by clowning 6th seed teams like the Broncos and Chiefs back in the day. In his Super Bowl winning year, his postseason passer rating was a pedestrian 70.5

serious question: If Manning makes it back to the Super Bowl and chokes it away again, is he still going to be better than Brady in your eyes?

oh and also you keep citing Manning's defense being slightly worse than Brady's defense. What about the surrounding players that Brady had versus Manning? Brady was throwing to Givens, Patten, Brown, and Branch while Manning was throwing to Harrison, Wayne, and Clark (all first round picks) while handing it off to Edgerrin James (another first-rounder). Yet they put up equal stats for offense in the playoffs as you gleefully pointed out, wonder that says about which QB PERFORMED BETTER, eh? WOW, brady just is worse though amirite? Putting up equal stats to Manning with worse weapons?

The one year that Brady was healthy and had the equivalent talented weapons as Manning's had over his entire career, he broke all of Manning's records

WELP

How about Peyton being spotted 4 first round picks to play with on offense and Tom Brady having none except for one year with Moss (in which again, he broke all of Manning's records and was a sticky helmet away from immortality and 19-0) yet scoring as many points in postseason playoff games? Do you really find the surrounding offensive talent inconsequential?

 

Originally Posted by FenwayKing

oh cool, I forgot that you played to have the best regular season record.

oh and nice job translating that superior regular season record into rings LOL

oh and Manning's playoff stats are inflated by clowning 6th seed teams like the Broncos and Chiefs back in the day. In his Super Bowl winning year, his postseason passer rating was a pedestrian 70.5

serious question: If Manning makes it back to the Super Bowl and chokes it away again, is he still going to be better than Brady in your eyes?

oh and also you keep citing Manning's defense being slightly worse than Brady's defense. What about the surrounding players that Brady had versus Manning? Brady was throwing to Givens, Patten, Brown, and Branch while Manning was throwing to Harrison, Wayne, and Clark (all first round picks) while handing it off to Edgerrin James (another first-rounder). Yet they put up equal stats for offense in the playoffs as you gleefully pointed out, wonder that says about which QB PERFORMED BETTER, eh? WOW, brady just is worse though amirite? Putting up equal stats to Manning with worse weapons?

The one year that Brady was healthy and had the equivalent talented weapons as Manning's had over his entire career, he broke all of Manning's records

WELP

...and lost in the Super Bowl.

All of those accolades and didn't win a championship that year.

Complete choke artist IMO.

 

Originally Posted by FenwayKing

He's played with 4 first round picks at the skill positions, actually wait that's just 4 good skill players. Don't forget Joseph Addai, Anthony Gonzalez, and Donald Brown were also all drafted in the first round...um how many did Brady play with on offense at a skill position?

Randy Moss, Daniel Graham, Ben Watson, and Lolrence Maroney.

lol @ saying he's played with him for 3 seasons after '07? link? He was injured in '08 for the whole season except one quarter. Then in 2009, he faced the hardest passing defense schedule since 1995 according to football outsiders and coolly put up a 96.2 passer rating and the 2nd-best DVOA in the league behind Phil Rivers and better than Manning's. Then he played 4 games with Moss this year and guess what...was leading the league in DVOA and had a passer rating in the 100s before the Moss trade. So yea, I can say pretty comfortably that if Brady had had the talent Manning had around him during his years he would've been just as successful, if not more than Manning.

That's with 4 skill position players who were drafted in the first round, only 1 of em whom panned out. Manning had 7 skill position players drafted around him during his tenure for offense and still can't breathe the same air as Brady in the postseason.

Case closed.

Wow, this logic is retarded. There is no other way to describe it. You are arguing that Dallas Clark inflated Manning's numbers and made him look good, but you are also saying that the Pats 2 first round draft pick tight ends simply didn't "pan out" and it wasn't Brady's fault. Wow, OK.

Manning's passer rating is actually higher without Harrison than it is with him. He made Austin Collie look like a stud this year.

Marvin Harrison was a below average #1 receiver before Manning became the starting QB. Some people believe Randy Moss was the greatest wide receiver to ever play the game (I think he is #2). If anything, I would have loved to see Manning get a chance to throw to Moss in his prime. Maybe HIS numbers would have gone up a lot, too.

a dropoff of 5 wins is significant when they basically had the same team that was the best team of all-time in 07; they also played the eighth-easiest schedule in the league that year.