Originally Posted by raisethis2

For 2 years now every fucking Republican has done nothing but mail it in. No, no, no, no, no, no, no...........and not a hint of an idea of their own. Do you whine about them and the fucking they're giving us too? Of course not.

Could you imagine if the Republicans had gone along with Obama on everything he wanted? We would be in even worse shape. Problem with the GOP is they fucked us in a different way...look at that chart and tell me who was in power when it starts to take off. The Republictards are just as bad as the dumbacrats.
Thats why the Tea party has been so successful. We can whine about it all we want, but the failed policies of the last 20-30 years are now coming home to roost and we are going to pay big time. GG USA.

 

Originally Posted by rocco20v

People's lives and well being should NOT come down to a business/bottom line profit decision.

What should people's lives comedown to? Just asking since most people would say that financial decisions greatly impact a person's quality of life.

 

Originally Posted by rocco20v

People's lives and well being should NOT come down to a business/bottom line profit decision. When insurance companies fail to actually insure people, paying customers mind you, the system is severely broken and the concept of even having private insurance has out lived its usefulness. Insurance companies add no value to the healthcare equation when you can't even rely on them to cover you when you are struck with a catastrophic illness or injury.

A single payer system is the best thing we can hope for at this point.

So a single payer system is the best thing we can hope for.... Ok.... So people's lives and well being should not come down to a business/bottom line profit decision. Ok.... So if the single payer system is run by the federal government, what happens when their costs are skyrocketing and they can't afford every procedure for everybody? Instead of determining coverage based on profit, they will determine coverage based on usefullness. Is it worth it for them to treat the 29 year old with a serious illness? Probably, since there's still plenty of money they can suck out of him when he's healthy. How about the retired 73 year old? Probably not, since he's no longer usefull to them, you know, tax "revenue" wise. There are car companies still waiting for their cash for clunkers payouts. These are the people you want to depend on to cover your catastrophic illness or injury? Keep in mind, just because the government isn't like a private company, doesn't mean they won't decline coverage. As has already been pointed out, the biggest rate of declining coverage comes from government run medicare/medicaid.

there are a lot of dumb people in IL

 

Originally Posted by raisethis2

For 2 years now every fucking Republican has done nothing but mail it in. No, no, no, no, no, no, no...........and not a hint of an idea of their own. Do you whine about them and the fucking they're giving us too? Of course not. In November the shoe will be on the other foot. The Republicans will have a majority again (in the House). Then they will actually be responsible for something. I just hope for every bright idea they have to move jobs offshore, cut taxes to the wealthy and fuck with your life Obama has the stones to say the same thing to them................FUCK NO!!!! VETO!!!!

This is just a flat out lie. Nice try tho.

Edit: Oh and Tread is a dick. Biggest asshole in OT.

I work for a MedAssets, which provides healthcare providers margin control, the main being the GPO. There are various reasons government spending has spiraled upwards in recent years. Life expectancy, aging population, and rising medical device cost are among the biggest reasons. The amount of money spent on healthcare today is half of Chinas GDP. That shit is insane.
Healthcare providers are terrified of this bill. Hospitals make zero dollars from Medicare/Medicaid claims. Our clients, 3300 hospitals and around 20,000 surgery centers, are praying MedAssets can keep coming up with new ways to drive out cost in health care. The burden of this bill is put strictly on hospitals and taxpayers. Additionally, every hospital and GPO CEO believes this bill will bankrupt the US and make it impossible to provide quality health care.
Hoards of healthy individuals will pull out of the private health care insurance market, and go for the lower cost government health care insurance. Premiums will go sky high for the old and ill pools of people left making them follow the healthy. Private insurance companies collapse. US spending on health care becomes astronomical and the government can no longer remain solvent. Congratulations supporters of the health care bill, we all lose.

Yes, you are not the only one who can't argue a point so you have to resort to name calling. And I'm sure there are many more.

So let me get this straight, I enter a thread with valid discussion point (like how absolutely absurd it is to not recognize the number of medical problems that are NOT related to "lifestyle choices") and you enter to call names, yet I am spineless and feckless. But nice job at sharing your resume as an attempt to make your actions seem like they might be acceptable.

The funny thing is, with the knowledge you have from your job, you have no choice but to completely agree with the point I'm making about how vastly Willy is overstating "lifestyle choices" as a cause of health care issues, but you won't because that would mean agreeing with me, which would make you look like an even bigger idiot than you already do in these threads.

And this is for your resume, nice job sir

Tread, I'm not dismissing those that happen for no reason. I admit bad things happen to good people all of the time, life isn't fair, no matter how much legislation you pass.

But sorry man, you are a complete idiot to discount the fact that our health care costs are skyrocketing because of lifestyle choices. For you to argue this point shows your complete ignorance on the subject. It's not just the majority of costs, it's the VAST majority of costs excluding end of life care. We get to end of life expenses no matter how we live.

I'm sick of people getting disability because they have a drinking or drug problem. I'm sick of listening to patients whine because medicaid won't pay for their custom back brace and they have to wear one off the shelf. I'm tired hard working people being screwed by insurance companies while non-working people get everything for free. I'm tired of college kids and professors telling me they have a "right" to my time, my intellectual property, my equipment, my office staff and their time and resourses, my office space etc etc.

You come into a debate about health care and totally diminish lifestyle choices, even mock the fact I might say something like that when it's painfully obvious you have no clue on the subject so you just choose to be a dick about it. Here's a homework assignment, look at eastern medicine costs and how they are broken down and compare them to western medicine's fat, pill happy society and tell me what we have done to change this.

You can try to defend this bill like Underdog did and use OLD CBO numbers (I guess he didn't get the memo that those have since changed) and we'll just shake our heads, but when you come in with no substance you have to expect a little backlash. I've given you respect in the past because I figured you being an econ student you should know more than I do on the subject, so I deferred to that knowledge (until you started posting idiot graphs saying unemployment benefits are the best catalyst for recovery, you lost me there). Now? I'm leaning towards ABQ's side and realizing what an angry cynical young dude you are and how incredibly misinformed you are. You should stick to the sports threads, I really liked your analysis of Boise in that thread, but you don't belong in political, economical, health care threads until you do a little homework that doesn't involve spitting out what your prof tells you. Guess what, he's wrong too.

Sorry to be so harsh, but jeebus you come off as an uninformed arrogant little prick sometimes. Now tell me, how does this bill lower costs? What solutions do you have to lower costs? Do you have any other solutions other than raising taxes? because guess what dude, generating income from taxes and student loans has diddly to do with health care. Can you think of any ways to encourage people to make healthier choices other than mandating them? Bring something to the table and you might actually gain the lost respect back.

It's still the same old bullshit. Medical costs are outrageous so the remedy is to deny coverage/treatment to those incapable of affording it. I'm sorry but that's just inhumane. I think people want to live in America because we have the best of just about everything the world has to offer. To have no interest in working on unaffordable costs and just decree that some should be shit out of luck is no answer.

 

Originally Posted by MilBestDrnkr

If you don't have the foresight to get your kid some health insurance, and out of nowhere he becomes sick the blame is yours, not the insurance companies.

ding ding ding ........ we have a winner. Why even get insurance at all until something happens ? That way you don't have to pay when things are going well and then if your kid gets sick just sign up for insurance then and they have to take them... and profit !

Before someone mentions Im in Canada. Fuck Canadian healthcare. I promise YOU DO NOT WANT.

 

Originally Posted by raisethis2

It's still the same old bullshit. Medical costs are outrageous so the remedy is to deny coverage/treatment to those incapable of affording it. I'm sorry but that's just inhumane. I think people want to live in America because we have the best of just about everything the world has to offer. To have no interest in working on unaffordable costs and just decree that some should be shit out of luck is no answer.

But why didn't Obamacare include cost cutting provisions like allowing individuals to buy health insurance across state lines? Sadly the bill will only increase the amount of Americans covered, while doing absolutely nothing to bring down health care costs and premiums.

I'll take you word for it, I guess. I really don't get it. The amount of vitriol that Tread inspires honestly baffles me. He isn't shy about calling bullshit when he sees it, but no one in OT politics is so I'm not sure what the difference is. Of all the people who post in political threads, I think Tread backs up his arguments the most with actual data and charts. His absolute destruction of norcaljeff on the Bush tax cuts was something to behold.

haha - I just read UD's post and then when I went to the main page it said NCJ posted and so I clicked it and while I was scrolling down, I said out loud. "Link? I'll wait". too predictable imsmfobvo

 

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I dont read the forum too much anymore, hence, i dont see every post you make, but the ones i have seen in the last year or so has contained a seething undercurrent of rage. Anonymous interwebz people seem to really anger you.

edit: idk, seemed apropos

edit 2: this thread, as an example, is certainly an example of seething undercurrent of rage: http://www.pocketfives.com/f13/belie...2/#post5639972

I should think contributions like that earn me the right to call out assholes like Tread when required. And, well, with him, its always required.