Originally Posted by El Burro

I am absolutely in favor of equal funding. It's the use of municipal taxes from different municipalities that I have a problem with. If it was a state tax, it wouldn't be an issue.

Ok, so you are saying your county property tax would be (or is) redistributed to equal out school funding across the state, and that bothers you?

Edit: I'm not sure what mechanism a city/county could levy a tax then spend it elsewhere, but let me know what I don't know

 

Originally Posted by XquiziVex

You people are sick to think that any program that singles out children based on their skin color for extra government assistance is equal. Solving historical race issues by creating programs that discriminate (whether it be for positive or negative) is not the answer. There is no equality in this executive order.

Obama could have made this executive order non-raced based and it would, by default, probably serve a disproportionate number of blacks...without excluding hispanics, asians, or whites.

Despite the statistics that people like to spew... children of all races face academic/familial challenges.

I don't think it's equal, but I also don't believe it is unwarranted. Part of the difference between immigrant families and black Americans has to do with the cultural perception of opportunity. Immigrants typically have come to America with the expectation that they will have opportunities to succeed and our system in some ways is geared to foster that belief. Immigrants have lots of government services specifically tailored to foster their success in America. Poor minorities that have lived within an oppressive culture are less inclined to see the opportunities available as they might not be as readily apparent. Entitlements might not be the right answer, but targeted program for a group to encourage and changed perceptions is not fundamentally flawed.

 

Originally Posted by userid363

Edit: I'm not sure what mechanism a city/county could levy a tax then spend it elsewhere, but let me know what I don't know

I also haven't really heard of this. Must be another state.

I always thought it was weird for the gov to bus kids far from home so they could go to a decent school...instead of fixing the shitty schools.

 

Originally Posted by pistol45

I don't think it's equal, but I also don't believe it is unwarranted. Part of the difference between immigrant families and black Americans has to do with the cultural perception of opportunity. Immigrants typically have come to America with the expectation that they will have opportunities to succeed and our system in some ways is geared to foster that belief. Immigrants have lots of government services specifically tailored to foster their success in America. Poor minorities that have lived within an oppressive culture are less inclined to see the opportunities available as they might not be as readily apparent. Entitlements might not be the right answer, but targeted program for a group to encourage and changed perceptions is not fundamentally flawed.

absolutely

 

Originally Posted by El Burro

Userid363 - local taxes are being used for things that aren't local. Yes, that bothers me. I'm not sure how they did it, but I can probably find a link to it later. School funding should be equal. It just seems stupid to fund it with property tax dollars since that would obviously impact things being equal statewide. Redistributing local taxes was their fix. Again - school funding and resources should be equal, IMO.

As I said, I'm not aware that redistribution between counties is a big problem. What if property taxes (at least the part that fund schools) were levied by the state then redistributed "equally" (quotes bc there would be a lot of debate over this...per capita? that would discriminate against rural schools...etc) would be OK by your standards?

Edit: I guess my problem is that municipal $$ are NOT redistributed, creating the inequity?

 

Originally Posted by norcaljeff

I always thought it was weird for the gov to bus kids far from home so they could go to a decent school...instead of fixing the shitty schools.

Yeah, that was fucked up, man. Moved to Louisville the year busing hit and we had actual riots. Those Loo-ville boys came back with a bad attitude about blacks.

I'm interested in your ideas about fixing shitty schools

 

Originally Posted by XquiziVex

I agree with what you are saying for the most part. However, I do take issue with your last sentence depending on your definition of "targeted." If a program "targets" based on race, creed, religion etc. Then it's a major problem.

Most solutions directed toward blacks could be solved with "targeted" defined as socio economic status. As I said, before, this would by default target a lot of black families without the exclusion of other needy children.

'There is not a black America. There is not a white America. There is a United States of America.' It's funny that the same guy who spewed this applesauce has failed to walk the walk.

Since I'd say a huge % of the socio-economic problem is with blacks - the other disproportionately affected areas would be Indian reservations, and probably to a lesser extent Spanish slums (East LA, Miami), I'd say this is a damned good start, and not the major problem you believe.

I too would rather that skin color not be the sole indicator, but if you included Indian or Spanish, you would be doing the same thing, just with more groups. I'm hoping these efforts get more inclusive to help any family that has a difficult situation and for whatever reason doesn't have an environment where they are learning the skills they need to succeed

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/27/ob...line-policies/

This one is clearly racist lol.

"President Barack Obama is backing a controversial campaign by progressives to regulate schools’ disciplinary actions so that members of major racial and ethnic groups are penalized at equal rates, regardless of individuals’ behavior. "

“It is too bad that the president has chosen to set up a new bureaucracy with a focus on one particular racial group, to the exclusion of all others,” said Roger Clegg, the president of the Center for Equal Opportunity.

“What this means is that whites and Asians will get suspended for things that blacks don’t get suspended for,"

Just LOL.

 

Originally Posted by userid363

As I said, I'm not aware that redistribution between counties is a big problem. What if property taxes (at least the part that fund schools) were levied by the state then redistributed "equally" (quotes bc there would be a lot of debate over this...per capita? that would discriminate against rural schools...etc) would be OK by your standards?

Edit: I guess my problem is that municipal $$ are NOT redistributed, creating the inequity?

The main problem I have is with schools being dependent on property tax at all, the "Robin Hood" system just turns something that was already shitty into something much more shitty.

For instance, I have property, but I don't have kids. Even though I don't have kids, I'm okay with paying for local schools with my local property tax. Does it irk me a bit that parents can rent and still send kids to schools that they aren't paying for, even if they are in the top 10% of income? Yes, a bit. But good school districts are good for property value. It benefits me beyond the general community value associated with good schools and educated neighbors.

If I am paying local taxes for schools that aren't even in my area, I'm getting fucked twice. Once because I'm paying for something I don't use, and another because the only tangible benefit (preservation of property value) I was receiving from the first fucking is being divided.

In my ideal scenario, all schools would be funded by a state tax that impacted a greater percentage of the population (including parents who rent, in particular). For instance, sales tax would make more sense to me as a funding source. It would make things much more straightforward and fair, imo. Leave local taxes for roads, parks, etc. and keep them local. Fund schools statewide to streamline funding and reduce disparities in quality from community to community.

Pretty sure when u rent u are still paying property tax, although in a slightly less direct way.

 

Originally Posted by userid363

You and ginwilly actually believe that providing equal elementary education is robbery? It's just sad, really.

clueless fuckwad says what?

I said that we have increased education spending exponentially while test scores and our national ranking continues to decline. My stance is money is not the problem and you can't think of any suggestions that don't involve other people's property. Our education system is broke and you want to pour more money into a broken system.

Check out the results of the two new charter schools opened in Detroit that are operating on a fraction of the cost for further proof if common sense fails you.

user, you really are a dense one. If we were face to face I would either bitch slap you or wait for the apology.

renters also miss out on the prob value increase. also with how small the country/world is getting, educating anyone in the world could end up being a positive outcome for you.

i really think our mission statement as a country, should be to have the best education system and have our citizens most prepared for future. i do agree with doing more apprentice/vocational type education and not just focus on going to college. i think a lot is learned in college beyond just what you study and it can be a benefit even if you are getting a degree that ncj would laugh at and would seem to have no real-world value, but it also doesnt make sense for a lot of people.

i think schools should become community hubs that facilitate even more than they currently do. i know not all schools shut down as soon as the kids leave, but i think schools should be open almost all hours (6a - midnite). things like computer labs, cafeterias, libraries, gyms can be a great resource for people of all ages in a community. obv would need to be supervised and made sure to be kept safe and make it a place for productivity, etc. i do think trying to institute a system like this from a national perspective would lead to too many probs and waste, but if individual communities worked to make their schools places where the community comes together to help each other it would be a very positive and productive thing.

i just remember how great it was as a kid that our school opened the gym from 8a-12p every saturday. i would go for 4hrs and just a teacher would watch as we played mostly hours of basketball.

it would maybe work to, until somebody teaches a song about Obama and gets compared to communists, but til then it may be fun.

everybodysgettinmad.jpg

Edit: in reply to the long post: yOu just couldnt lay off the last para, could you? ;-)

And i have a political science degree, so im lolling with, not at, useless degrees lol

Agrii with a lot of what you said.


Edit2: el burro has educated many a kid, for free. In the back of the contravan, that is. Hey, you dont like the curriculum dont let your kids walk home alone!