Really how stupid does he think the American public is? First he said this was going to decrease your premiums by 3000 percent now he claims without a massive spending program only offset by cuts to Medicare and massive tax increases the US was going bankrupt.

The heath care bill does not decrease the amount of spending by the government. If you factor the cuts to the Medicare program with the new spending from the subsidy's within the exchange it is an increase in spending. The only reason why it got a net positive from the CBO was the massive tax increases within the bill. (which are more likely going to make the cost of health care much more expensive and further limit job growth within the US)

He got the bill passed someone should give him the memo that he can stop lying about it now.

whats it like to live in Fargo?

 

Originally Posted by CaptinMorgan

Really how stupid does he think the American public is?

He would probably think you're pretty stupid.

 

Originally Posted by Underdog34

He would probably think you're pretty stupid.

I'm sure he would. Do you think the country was going bankrupt without a bill that increases government spending? Do you think your health insurance costs are going down 3000 percent?

 

Originally Posted by CaptinMorgan

I'm sure he would. Do you think the country was going bankrupt without a bill that increases government spending? Do you think your health insurance costs are going down 3000 percent?

Yes, the country was going bankrupt without a fundamental change in entitlement programs. Most people believe that. The only thing they disagree with is whether the HCR bill is going to fix the problem.

The quote from Obama that says "your insurance rates may decrease by as much as 3000%" was a flub. He meant to say "3,000 dollars." He has used the same speech numerous times and always says "3,000 dollars" except for that one time. It's funny, but it's not a lie or indicative of him trying to fool people. The fact that people think he actually meant to say that is kind of like someone thinking that Sean Hannity really meant that teabaggers are "Tim McVeigh wannabes."

 

Originally Posted by Underdog34

Yes, the country was going bankrupt without a fundamental change in entitlement programs. Most people believe that. The only thing they disagree with is whether the HCR bill is going to fix the problem.

I agree with the first part. But how can the fundamental change entail the government spending more money than what they previously were? The bill that passed does not decrease spending on entitlement programs it shifts where it is spent and increases in overall.

On the second part the bill is going to benefit some people and hurt others but very few people are going to be saving $3,000. Those include people who have an illness who had individual coverage prior to this bill. Some other people ($88,000 or less I believe is the number) will also benefit but that much. Most people who have individual coverage will see either their premiums go up or the level of coverage go down.

Can you explain how after this bill someone's (who already has coverage) cost will go down without any decrease in coverage?

Whatever happened to your baseball league?

 

Originally Posted by Underdog34

Yes, the country was going bankrupt without a fundamental change in entitlement programs.

So they pass a massive entitlement program!

HUH?

How long till a reparations settlement and all africian Americans get free health care?

 

Originally Posted by jay_bear

How massive is this tax increase in the bill? I just want to know on average, how high will taxs be raised because of the passage of healthcare?

Depends on what you currently use and what your income is. This bill doesn't contain a provision where taxes go up X amount for everyone it has multiple tax increases on different things along with taking away current tax free benefits and making them subject to tax.

How much your taxes are going up is unknown but your taxes will go up directly through multiple tax increases, indirectly through elimination of current tax free benefits.

Your health care costs will go up indirectly through this bill as it contains multiple tax increases in the medical industry which means health insurance costs will go up.

you can always count on echelon to have the graphs ready

the one working for one of the ying/yang party... you know, the one who's only interest is power and division of the people... its the demipubs or republicrats, I forget which one it is for sure.

 

Originally Posted by ripomatic

and look at the Clinton years vs bush, unreal how the far right warps the minions mind!

Yes it's amazing how easilly everyone forgets the tech boom and the zillions of jobs and taxes that provided and that had just started the economy onthe right direction towards the end of bush sr's term.
Talk about having it handed to you on a silver platter. But economic conditions only mean shit when it's convenient for your own argument. Oh that's right, creating housing loan loopholes which led to a part of today's fucked up economy live on from clintons time. But Stay focused on your argumets. Lol.
Ok Clinton did cut corporate capital gains taxes which increased those taxes 100% but Obama doesn't want to do that. (not until you buy into we would be broke crap first. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/why...llion-soma-hol
Who knows how much higher the cap gains revs wouldve been with the tech boom already but it was still Positive. I'm not complainig about Clinton tho, just with the dilussional sheep who think he fixed it all. He just got credit for it. Libs rewrote that history within moments of the silver platters delivery.
We also have a different congressional composition now. I strongly believe Clinton was a much better leader than Obama and wouldve found a better way than Obama today because he knew how to work with people instead of just blame blame blame bush for everything. (he did a little bit before realizing he got it on a platter and had nothing to complain about anymore.)
what do I know, I only lived through it and I wasn't under 12 years old. But I'm not a politico shyster or debator so now this whole statement will be torn to shreds because I'm not a scientist.

 

Originally Posted by jetsjets1028

My issue with Obama saying that we were going bankrupt without this is that the legislation he signed doesn't kick in for about 4 years. Why?

Can you please explain to everyone why Obama and the authors of this bill decided not to have it kick in until after <STRIKE>the 2012 elections</STRIKE> 2014.

QFIncaseyoumissedit

 

Originally Posted by skisteve

Yes it's amazing how easilly everyone forgets the tech boom and the zillions of jobs and taxes that provided and that had just started the economy onthe right direction towards the end of bush sr's term.
Talk about having it handed to you on a silver platter. But economic conditions only mean shit when it's convenient for your own argument. Oh that's right, creating housing loan loopholes which led to a part of today's fucked up economy live on from clintons time. But Stay focused on your argumets. Lol.
Ok Clinton did cut corporate capital gains taxes which increased those taxes 100% but Obama doesn't want to do that. (not until you buy into we would be broke crap first. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/why...llion-soma-hol
Who knows how much higher the cap gains revs wouldve been with the tech boom already but it was still Positive. I'm not complainig about Clinton tho, just with the dilussional sheep who think he fixed it all. He just got credit for it. Libs rewrote that history within moments of the silver platters delivery.
We also have a different congressional composition now. I strongly believe Clinton was a much better leader than Obama and wouldve found a better way than Obama today because he knew how to work with people instead of just blame blame blame bush for everything. (he did a little bit before realizing he got it on a platter and had nothing to complain about anymore.)
what do I know, I only lived through it and I wasn't under 12 years old. But I'm not a politico shyster or debator so now this whole statement will be torn to shreds because I'm not a scientist.

lets say for arguments sake Clinton was handed the platter. there is a HUGE difference between taking the ball and running with it, and completely fucking it up, which is what Bush did. As for housing loopholes, please explain, if your speaking of the recent reasons for the bailout. (look no further that phil gramm and the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act) this is why the investment banks were allowed to trade naked CDO's. and if i recall bush cut the capitol gains taxes to 10% and 25%. FWIW i am not a dem. but i think bush will go down as the worst president in our history!

 

Originally Posted by Neeek

my favorite thing that has happened recently is that obama realized republicans arent going to budge

LOL. How many times does it have to be pointed out to you <STRIKE>sheep</STRIKE> people that Obama didnt need even one Republican to get his precious bill passed. He just wanted a few so he didn't have to go off the cliff by himself.

 

Originally Posted by Neeek

(see criticizing him over opening offshore drilling)

I can't believe this dumb trick actually worked. Please tell me why they are criticizing the Offshore drilling issue. Try hard.

 

Originally Posted by Neeek

the next couple years are going to be exciting if he got rid of his pussy like i think he did.

except along with his pussy, he did a great job of getting rid of the majority in Congress he needs to pass all of his left of left of left bull shit. Gonna be hard after the new Congress is sworn in.

Hell, maybe he can find a way to suspend elections.

WE ARE ALREADY FUCKING BANKRUPT! We just haven't admitted it yet. There is a zero percent chance of paying back the debt. We will have to default one way or another. That default will most likely come through inflation because it is the least obvious to the people and they don't actually have to admit they did anything wrong that way. The problem is that inflation is the most destructive form of default to the people.

The end to this debt financed fantasy is coming to an end soon. Health care reform, even if it was absolutely perfect and costs really stopped going up and everyone was magically covered, will do nothing to stop our countries bankruptcy.