Alright OT....I need your thoughts / opinions.

Around the middle of May I had a pool guy (a sort of one man, small company highly recommended by my boss) come out to try to figure out why my pool pump wasn't pulling the water into the filter. He determined the pipe was burst between the pool and the pump. While I had him fix that I asked him to install a new liner (since it was way overdue), a new HD heat pump, and a salt water chlorine generating system. On top of this he installed a new diving board, a roller unit, serviced the pump, serviced the filter, put new sand in it and a few other things. All of this cost me ~$20K.

By June 8th it was all said and done and ready to go...it looked beautiful and was very warm within a few days. I had a bunch of family and friends over but nothing too out of the norm. About 6 weeks later I noticed the water level start to drop, I wasn't alarmed as evaporation, backwashing the filter and cannonballs can take that kind of toll. I threw a couple hoses into it and left it overnight to fill. The morning after I came out to find the water level about 3 or 4 inches below where it was before I went to bed. I turned the hoses off and went to work.

The pool guy came out and took a look at it later that evening and found a rip in the liner seam right in the corner of the shallow end. He said someone would have to stomp on the corner to get it to separate like that, I replied with that's bullshit as there's no way anyone would maliciously try to wreck my liner....even then, there's a shit ton of pressure on those corners from the water, it should stand someone stepping on it. Anyways, his first reaction is to tell me to go through my house insurance...I tell him that's not going to happen since (imo) I shouldn't have to pay out of my pocket through my insurance for what's either a faulty liner, a faulty install, or a faulty measurement job. Also, I had a claim last year against my house insurance and may lose coverage if I have another one. His second thought was that since it was a rip in the seam it may be covered under warranty. Why this is his second thought and not his first I'm not too sure but I assume if I go the insurance route his labor would be covered. He says no guarantees but he'll take some pictures of the rip, send them off to the liner company and see about a warranty.

A week later he calls me back to tell me essentially there's good news and bad news. The good news being that the liner is covered since it seems to be faulty but the bad news is his labor, materials, new seal etc isn't covered. He estimates I'm looking at about $3K.

I feel like I shouldn't have to cover any of these costs and that he should either stand behind the products he sells or the liner company should have to foot these bills. He tells me it's in the contract I signed etc. but I don't recall signing a contract...only lots of checks.

The pool in question;



I've got him coming out this afternoon to discuss....

I don't necessarily want to get into a "Fuck you!", "No fuck you!" conversation with him quite yet but am willing to do so if needed.

Thoughts / opinions / recommendations / recourse?

Should I just bite the bullet and cover these costs / go through insurance?

Threadsaver:

I think we need a water filter at work, this coffee is nasty

if you didn't sign anything you are sol, and if you did you prob still are, offer him half maybe?

sick brag re being able to keep water unfrozen in canada, magic man.

Have you contacted the liner company? If not I'd lay into the guy. He's making twice as much money for what was probably his fault. Make sure to throw in how satisfied you were with his work up to this point and would have recommended him to some of your other friends with pools(regardless if you have any). If it isn't covered, maybe you can guilt him into lowering his costs. If that fails bring up having someone else do the work. If he's a 1 man operation odds are he doesn't want to lose your business/have anyone saying bad things about his operation. Pretty shitty situation though, hope you can get it covered.

Sounds to me like the pool guy is looking to come out ahead on both ends.

The cynic in me thinks that the pool guy will submit some kind of warranty claim and get reimbursed (in some form) from the liner company. Then, he turns around and hits you up for a reinstall charge too.

If there's a manufacturer's defect, the liner company should pay to replace it and that should include labor and related materials, but in the end, it basically boils down to whatever is spelled out in the contract. Call the company; get copies of all the paperwork; then, e-mail corporate and make a big stink.

Just further proof that warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They're only as good as the companies that stand behind them. And, 9 times out of 10, they will use every excuse imaginable to get out of making the customer whole.

this is a manufacturer defect and he should be able to get a replacement through his supplier, if nobody harmed it intentionally the seam was not vinyl welded properly at the factory which they will cover.... which does not happen very often, but it does maybe 1/200 shot..bad beat

and lol @ 3k for labor...fly me up and I'll put it in for $500....I can 100% guarentee his cost on an liner for that pool which is 16x32 6" radius corners I assume from the pic is no more than $900 tops...but yet he's charging 3k just for labor? your getting fucked and for 20k he should have updated your main drain cover to one that is code...but maybe canada is diff idk?

that sucks dude - yeah - I'd ask to see the contract, I'd tell him that you're not paying any additional costs, and I'd also plan on the lawsuit route. (don't forget possible structural/foundation damages that can come in the future from a significant leak like that). Make sure you document your water quality currently so no one says, "the alkalinity and pH being low can cause that sort of damage to the liner, and I have no responsibility for the care of the pool".

That sucks. Personally, I think your 'Pool Guy' is taking you for a ride.

1. Find warranty card (must have one). See what is included with the replacement of the liner.
2. Speak to manufacturer and see if 'Pool Guy' is double dipping and charging both yourself and manufacturer for install.
3. Speak to 'Pool Guy' to get a copy of the so called contract.
4 . Review & evaluate the above. If 'Pool Guy' is screwing you around, get new liner installed by newer 'Pool Guy'

Your story alone makes me not trust this guy.

Exactly why I swim in a pond.

Seems like he knows the system and doesn't know you have "pool boy" resources at your disposal.

PLZ PLZ update when you have this sorted.

get tile instead eh?

Here's a picture of the rip in the seam from the back side of the liner;



That obviously has to be a defective seam job correct?

Sounds like you need an independent pool liner expert or and engineering expert to give you an opinion if the cost is worth it. Maybe there is a history of this sort of thing happening that someone knows about. Did you google it by the manufacturer's name to see if someone is blogging about it?

Is there a warranty on the liner? If not, wtf?

You can find the manufacturers warranty online I would guess. Bypass the installer and go directly to the manufacturer. I don'tunderstand why the installer/retailer wouldn't give you help with the warranty issue.

 

Originally Posted by Diggs

Yeah there's a warranty on the liner - 3 Yr. Full, 22 Yr Pro Rated.

Upon reading it several times it's kinda vague. The liners manufacturer is Latham Splash Canada and the part that seems related but seems to contradict itself reads as follows;

"Latham Splash Canada shall not be responsible for the labor charges or any additional costs from related damage that may occur.
Latham Splash Canada shall not be responsible for the cost of removal or replacement of the product under warranty, nor for any other expenses or damages that might be incurred as the result of such removal or replacement.
After the third year, the purchaser shall pay the cost of any return freight as well as any installation costs."

Does the the last line not indicate that as long as it's within the first 3 years the re-installation will be covered or am I not reading it correctly?

http://<a href="http://www.yourpoolw...rk2010.pdf</a>

This is almost exact (upon first glance) except for mine reads 3 yr 22 yr pro rated whereas this link has 1/24 and the last line I quoted is different.

I hope you registered the liner online like it says. If not, do that immediately. Then make your claim under the warranty. It sounds like in the first year they will replace it but not pay for removal and installation, assuming they don't claim one of the exceptions, misuse, etc. Bad warranty, imo, but better than nothing

 

Originally Posted by Diggs

Yeah the warranty has been registered.

Does that last line that I quoted not indicate they will pay for the re-installation though as long as it's within the the first three years?

It may be a little vague. I would request that they pay for removal and installation and see what they say. If they say no, then point them to that language and any other that supports your position.

 

Originally Posted by Diggs

I've got a call into them for their 1-888 # and have left a message for them to call me back.....The pool guy is pretty sure they won't but it's worth a try.

I've asked the pool guy for a breakdown of how he comes to that ~$3000 estimate.

99/100 times they will not pay for any labor associated with re-installation, I would love to see his breakdown for $3k in labor, if you read my post above those numbers of hours as well as rate is pretty close to what it should cost, give or take a little because obv. labor rates differ by location, still if you just dropped 20k he should have a liner fast tracked and take the ~6 hrs to drop the new one in on his dime, that is what I would do for 2 reasons, 1. you just dropped 20k with my company...2. in this economy it is important to keep your good paying customers happy so that all your future $ comes to me....gl