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Papelbon to Phillies.

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  1. rocket5 rocket5 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 8:45pm)

    4 years 50 million.
  2. d1am0ndc d1am0ndc is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 8:47pm) in reply to rocket5

  3. Magnet Steve Magnet Steve is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 8:54pm) in reply to d1am0ndc

    I really fucking hate RAJ sometimes. Waste of goddamn money. Meanwhile, the Phils have Chase Utley and 3 question marks in the infield, and a lineup with little pop outside of Stayberry.
  4. R_Webb18 R_Webb18 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 8:54pm) in reply to Magnet Steve

    they sure like to spend a lot on bullpen pitchers
     
  5. breathe-ez breathe-ez is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 8:56pm) in reply to R_Webb18

    And they will still lose to the Cardinals next year.
  6. FenwayKing FenwayKing is offline The Well: FenwayKing

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 8:57pm) in reply to breathe-ez

    thanks for the memories, greattt pitcher and one of my favorite Red Sox of my lifetime

    that price is a joke for a closer though so whatever, enjoy it phillies
    1
  7. Jaybone2315 Jaybone2315 is offline J.B. Grindier

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:00pm) in reply to FenwayKing

    This is the first i heard.

    I opened this, and i actually said outloud, "What the fuck?!"

    Sigh.
  8. LeftyMark LeftyMark is online now Pee Wee's Big Adventure

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:03pm) in reply to Jaybone2315

     
    Originally Posted by Jaybone2315 View Post




    Sigh.

    Why the sigh?
  9. Jaybone2315 Jaybone2315 is offline J.B. Grindier

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:05pm) in reply to LeftyMark

    Cause the Phillies just spend $50M on a closer.

    There are way bigger needs then that. It just seems unnecessary, and a waste.
    Edited By: Jaybone2315 Nov 11th, 2011 at 09:05 PM
  10. TheWacoKidd TheWacoKidd is offline haters gonna hate

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:08pm) in reply to Jaybone2315

    wow what a shit contract for the Phillies (that I wish the Mets could afford to do obv)
     1
  11. Johnny Slippy Johnny Slippy is offline Pudding Slut

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:13pm) in reply to TheWacoKidd

    The Phillies were going to give Madson a ton of money anyway, so it doesn't really matter. There was just no way that they weren't going to "overpay" for a closer this off-season. Teams overpay for need.
  12. Pker4Dummies Pker4Dummies is online now

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:16pm) in reply to Johnny Slippy

    [ ] Closer is a need you should ever overpay for.
  13. FiGMan FiGMan is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:16pm) in reply to Johnny Slippy

     
    Originally Posted by Johnny Slippy View Post

    The Phillies were going to give Madson a ton of money anyway, so it doesn't really matter. There was just no way that they weren't going to "overpay" for a closer this off-season. Teams overpay for need.

    Yeh was going to post exactly this. It was either resign Madson or get Pappelbon for slightly more no?
  14. TMLMS13 TMLMS13 is online now

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:19pm) in reply to FiGMan

    http://www.pocketfives.com/f13/offic...43/index3.html
  15. Johnny Slippy Johnny Slippy is offline Pudding Slut

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:20pm) in reply to Pker4Dummies

     
    Originally Posted by Pker4Dummies View Post

    [ ] Closer is a need you should ever overpay for.

    I kind of agree with you. I was just saying that they weren't just going to let Madson walk with no plan B. If Madson wasn't on the team last year, it's a different story, maybe they just throw someone in there.
  16. R_Webb18 R_Webb18 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:21pm) in reply to Johnny Slippy

    didnt they already give madson 44 million or that never happen?
     
  17. Johnny Slippy Johnny Slippy is offline Pudding Slut

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:25pm) in reply to R_Webb18

     
    Originally Posted by R_Webb18 View Post

    didnt they already give madson 44 million or that never happen?

    No, they never closed that deal.
  18. s1nnr s1nnr is offline will stab you

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:26pm) in reply to R_Webb18

     
    Originally Posted by R_Webb18 View Post

    didnt they already give madson 44 million or that never happen?

    never happened...

    i like papelbon, dont like the ridiculous money or length of time... so ridic
  19. Magnet Steve Magnet Steve is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:29pm) in reply to s1nnr

     
    Originally Posted by s1nnr View Post

    never happened...

    i like papelbon, dont like the ridiculous money or length of time... so ridic

    Just wait til he takes a minute between pitches and pushes our nice 2h40m games over 3 hours.
  20. Moonlight Graham Moonlight Graham is online now

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:36pm) in reply to Magnet Steve

    Would rather have madson and save a few million. Hopefully he does his thing tho.
  21. Hecklerz Hecklerz is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 9:44pm) in reply to Moonlight Graham

    I liked the Phillies bullpen before Papelbon. I like him but I don't think he is the answer they are looking for.

    Also, that is a boatload of money. Good for him, bad for the Phillies.
  22. tkeat1653 tkeat1653 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:02pm) in reply to Hecklerz

    Realistically they had to sign either Madson or Paps. Paps made $12m and Madson was due for a hefty raise which obviously rumored to be $11m. They didn't overpay nor did that pay for a need that wasn't a need.

    They are paying FMV for a guy who is in his prime and arguably the 2nd or 3rd best closer over the past few years.
  23. gamma21 gamma21 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:08pm) in reply to tkeat1653

    Stark is saying that the deal will surpass $60MM with vesting option.
     
  24. SpankyHamm SpankyHamm is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:08pm) in reply to gamma21

    Thanks Paps.

    Phillies - good luck with him.
     
  25. TheWacoKidd TheWacoKidd is offline haters gonna hate

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:36pm) in reply to tkeat1653

     
    Originally Posted by tkeat1653 View Post

    Realistically they had to sign either Madson or Paps. Paps made $12m and Madson was due for a hefty raise which obviously rumored to be $11m. They didn't overpay nor did that pay for a need that wasn't a need.

    They are paying FMV for a guy who is in his prime and arguably the 2nd or 3rd best closer over the past few years.

    lol, you rarely fail to disappoint.

    it's not about Papelbon being very good, or needing a closer, it's about value. they just spent more money on a reliever than anyone else has ever spent. is a closer really that important? no. could they not have gotten similar production for way less money? of course they could have.

    I mean, yeah, it's nice to pick up a top closer and everything, but to say they didn't overpay is just silly.
    Edited By: TheWacoKidd Nov 11th, 2011 at 10:40 PM
     1
  26. Pker4Dummies Pker4Dummies is online now

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:47pm) in reply to TheWacoKidd

    Pretty sure Mo got more.
  27. edwardt1988 edwardt1988 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:48pm) in reply to TheWacoKidd

    Thanks for saving the Sox some money.
  28. FenwayKing FenwayKing is offline The Well: FenwayKing

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:50pm) in reply to TheWacoKidd

     
    Originally Posted by keithlaw View Post

    I thought signing Ryan Madson for four years and $44 million was a bad idea, even though he is the best free-agent reliever on the market, both short- and long-term. The history of signing relievers to deals of that length is simply too awful to ignore.

    That contract would have been a bargain relative to the four-year deal the Phillies are about to give Jonathan Papelbon -- more money, plus a lost draft pick, for an inferior reliever who gives up more fly balls.

    Papelbon was the second-best relief option on the market, but even in one of his best seasons in 2011, he was worth only two or three wins above replacement, and I'd put the over/under on his WAR for this deal at around eight, which would still make it a pretty bad contract. But the real issue with any reliever and with Papelbon specifically is high attrition rates -- relievers don't last, and their peaks tend to be short.

    Papelbon has remade himself once after bottoming out with a fastball-only approach a few years ago, but even now he relies heavily on the hard but very flat four-seamer, which likely won't translate well to a good home run park in Philadelphia. (His career-low home run rate in 2011 wasn't going to last, anyway.) And Papelbon has worked limited innings, never reaching 70 in a season, probably the Red Sox's response to his 2006 shoulder injury.

    The Phillies, as a team, threw 1,477 innings in 2011 and are now going to pay, on average, $12.5 million per year to Papelbon to throw maybe 4.5 percent of those. If they maintained that per-inning rate across their entire staff, they'd spend about $277 million on pitching alone. And since the ninth inning isn't always, or even often, the most leveraged inning in a game, this is a criminal misapplication of funds, not to mention the discarding of yet another first-round draft pick for the Phillies, whose farm system is depleted after a number of trades and other first-round picks lost for free-agent signings.

    Madson remains the best reliever on the market, but the gap between him and the second-best option is much larger, and that should help him max out his value, although the Phillies might just be completely out of touch with the market for relievers and how a sane executive would rationally value the innings they provide.

    As for the Red Sox, they pick up the Phillies' first-round pick, which would make it easier for them to use their own in signing a Type A free agent. They can slide Daniel Bard into the ninth inning -- I don't see his stuff or arm slot translating to the rotation -- and invest the money not spent there on shoring up their rotation.

    from keith law's article about why this is a pretty awful deal by the phils
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  29. tkeat1653 tkeat1653 is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:52pm) in reply to FenwayKing

    I rarely fail to disappoint?

    Being worth something of value and FMV are two different things. I do not disagree that a closer is not that important of a position and probably could have gotten similar production out of someone like Bastardo who was great for the 1st half of last year.

    But they made a decision that a top tier closer was on the top of their list and Madson and Paps were on their target list. Based on what Paps was getting last year and what they would have given Madson, I don't think they overpaid for him based on market conditions. Point is Paps would have gotten a similar amount from someone else.

    Just my opinion of course. But thats at least how I see it.

    I should also add that i dont think its a good deal, but i also dont think its a bad deal.
    Edited By: tkeat1653 Nov 11th, 2011 at 10:56 PM
  30. resilient resilient is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2011 (11/11/2011 10:55pm) in reply to tkeat1653

    Dream Teams gonna Dream Team
     
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