Originally Posted by bdluss

public money

Are you referring to public money from the federal government or state and local governments?

If you are referring to federal money, how much control should local school boards and communities give up to the feds because of its funding?

 

Originally Posted by Cesporz

I would think that it is an investment. The better educated children are the better chances and a better life they will live. Which mean they have a better chance at a higher paying job which comes full cirlce back to the economy, which effects everyone. I mean I just think of it as investment.

this

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

First, for those that don't think the government should fund schools or run schools, then who should?

I have no problem with schools being funded by state and local governments and local communities. I do not think that the federal government needs to be involved in education.

 

Originally Posted by dolphin13

SO what do you do with these students of which private schools don't want anything to do with?

The answer lies in my first answer. The ironic thing is that in our fair city, one of the private schools has turned into the haven for those students who have learning and disciplinary issues and whose families have enough money to send them there.

well put bdluss

 

Originally Posted by Willywoo

The answer lies in my first answer. The ironic thing is that in our fair city, one of the private schools has turned into the haven for those students who have learning and disciplinary issues and whose families have enough money to send them there.

I don't deny that a private school can do a great job with these students. However, it is still very easy for a private to dismiss these students if they don't turn it around. This option isn't there for a public school. In a pubic school, removing a student is tough, unless the student does several things to approach the level of expulsion (which when it does happen that student is sent to a different public school in a different district).

Wanna sure-fire way to drop some pounds? I'll enroll you, for free, in the best weight loss clinic in the world. You will attend M-F from about 8:45 to 3:15pm. Afterwards, you will get to go back to your home/apt without supervision and/or any control as to what you eat. What could go wrong?

 

Originally Posted by bdluss

First, for those that don't think the government should fund schools or run schools, then who should? If you have a privately run school, then that school can exclude who it wants and open the doors only to the desirable students. This is one of the reasons that private schools tend to outperform public schools, because a public school must take everyone. This means you have a higher percentage of students with emotional issues, learning disability issues, and behavioral issues. SO what do you do with these students of which private schools don't want anything to do with? As someone mentioned with the NY charter schools, this is part of the reason they are more successful as they do not accept these students. They also tend to get students who have involved parents, which is key to a students success.

In my experience with private schools, which I've been in contact with a few since we had an all private football league in 7-8th grade, the bold part is incorrect. There are just as many people with emotion issues, learning disabilities, and behavioral issues. The difference between private and public is that when the bells to go home ring, private school children have much more help than public school children. In public schools, you are more likely to see people with these problems fail and go wrong, but not more likely to see these problems. The summer before my 5th grade year, me and 3 of my classmates with various disabilities went to a teachers house every week day from 7am-noon to get help for our disabilities. She never charged any of our parents a cent. This kind of thing doesn't happen at public schools, but this is only one of the areas where teachers helped students when I was in school.

I agree with much of what my brother (bdluss) has said. We went to different high schools, me private him public. We both got a good education and were successful at our high school. We are both teachers, him at the MS level, me in HS. A couple things to add...

1. I knew becoming a teacher I would not be rich. I am ok with that. I could have gone into a different field and made more money (mathematics major) but I really enjoy teaching. Teachers should not be paid as much as lawyers. They are in the private sector, supply and demand, all that stuff. That being said, some people threw out the $75,000 salary for teachers. I started at about $29,000. My school district tops out at less than $70,000....after 15 years of experience, a masters degree, and 36 additional graduate credits. And that is above average for Wisconsin. Do I think I am well paid though? Yes. During the year I bust my ass. But I do have my summers free and holiday time off and that time is invaluable to me.

2. I think there is a place for the union, but I agree that bad/lazy teachers are protected way too much. It pisses me and other colleagues off when we hear about shitty teachers in our school. Get them out if they are not good. i.e. There are 2 teachers in my department who are consistently late for school (we have to be at school 15 min before school actually starts). This is unacceptable to me and any protection the union would give them is wrong.

3. Parental involvement from early childhood on is one of the keys to success in school. Please read to your kids when they are young, have them read to you, practice your math facts, help them with their homework and encourage them. OK, off my soapbox about that.

 

Originally Posted by brian36lefty

That being said, some people threw out the $75,000 salary for teachers. I started at about $29,000. My school district tops out at less than $70,000....after 15 years of experience, a masters degree, and 36 additional graduate credits. And that is above average for Wisconsin. Do I think I am well paid though? Yes. During the year I bust my ass. But I do have my summers free and holiday time off and that time is invaluable to me.

I mean on an annualized basis teachers do alright for themselves. Then you also get benefits. Nothing is stopping a teacher from working during the summer too to supplement his/her pay.

 

Originally Posted by Leet8s

 

Originally Posted by brian36lefty

That being said, some people threw out the $75,000 salary for teachers. I started at about $29,000. My school district tops out at less than $70,000....after 15 years of experience, a masters degree, and 36 additional graduate credits. And that is above average for Wisconsin. Do I think I am well paid though? Yes. During the year I bust my ass. But I do have my summers free and holiday time off and that time is invaluable to me.

I mean on an annualized basis teachers do alright for themselves. Then you also get benefits. Nothing is stopping a teacher from working during the summer too to supplement his/her pay.

I agree teachers do alright for themselves. Our benefits are great. And I coach a couple sports and supplement my income in the summer. I was just pointing out in Wisconsin the idea that you are going to come out of college and make 40 or 50 thousand and five years later make 70 thousand is not correct.

Whatever the schools do we need better ones. I live 30 minutes from detroit and the graduation rate is like 45%. This city and state have no hope with that going on. I agree w/ tax breaks for those who chose to pay for private education.

I also think that kids going into college need to be educated better on what degree's to get, it makes no sense to take out 40k or more in student loans to get a degree in a field that will only pay you 30-40k a year for the first 10 yrs. If that student wants to go into a field with crappy pay like teaching (in my opinion) don't go to a 4 yr expensive university at the cost of 15-20k a yr. go to community college for a couple grand a yr.

 

Originally Posted by Thatislife

 

Originally Posted by brian36lefty

I completely disagree with these statements. I have seen and taught more "issue" kids in the public high schools I have been in compared to the 12 years of private school I attended. There was no special education, no psychological counselor, no IEP's, no aides in classes in my grade school or high school. Public schools obviously have these resources. In order to get into my high school I had to take an aptitude test. Dont pass it? Sorry, no room for you.

You need to have your old school investigated. Private schools get funding from the government for a special needs teachers. I(or i guess my mom) chose for me not to use the special needs after like the 6th grade because I had to go during PE and we had a flag football league, but we had them if needed. We took an aptitude test every year with our SATs. If it was a Magnet Shool, I can understand taking an apptitude test to get into the HS, but other than that it seems kind of dumb. It is going to be constantly changing, especially when you get into highschool. Our psychological counselor was also our acedemic counselor, but had one of those too.

 

Originally Posted by brian36lefty

As for help after the bell...I agree. Private school kids have more help...at home...can afford private tutoring. As a public school teacher, I am required to stay after school for 45 minutes if students come in for help. I have students come in before school as well as during my prep and lunch period for help. Help is available as long as the student wants it.

What it sounds like is you just went to a horrible school where the teachers didn't give a shit. Granted I went to a Catholic school my whole life.

Actually I went to a couple Catholic schools which were very good. Nowhere did I say that my teachers didnt care. Quite the contrary. Rather, I said that public school teachers also offer help and care.

well you're working 9 months.

$29,000/.75= $38,667

that's pretty damn close to $40K a year. sure it takes longer to top out and it's a low ceiling, but that's a problem from government income.